283: Surfing, "Tough Love," & Why We Stopped Hating California

It might be 97 degrees in the recording studio, but Nole and Kevin are sitting down for an open conversation about mindset shifts, family dynamics, and setting hard boundaries.

In this episode, the guys discuss the temptation to complain about living in California and why shifting toward gratitude and contentment changes everything. They dive deep into the concept of "tough love," unpacking the difference between healthy parenting and codependent enabling. Finally, Kevin shares a raw, post-shift realization about coming home exhausted after three days on the squad and how we can better manage the "storms" in our households.

Plus, details on the upcoming 6th Annual 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb at the LA County Fire Museum.

Big thank you to My Epic and Facedown Records for the use of their song "Hail" in our podcast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2RZThURTU&ab_channel=FacedownRecords

Sign up for the stair climb!

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Transcript

Nole (00:01.262)
The funniest thing about that is I the guys had been talking about it like a week ago. I'd never seen it, never heard of it, and they were telling the story about it. And then we got moved up and as soon as we pulled up to the gate, I didn't remember the station number or anything. We pulled up to the gate, I was like, This is the gate. I it's worse than I even imagined.

Kevin (00:17.346)
Penisgate

So funny. I only know because when I I was up in the desert for my first spot and it was a new fire station. And just a funny story. So they you know this you've heard this county law or whatever that has to have like ten percent of the budget for us has to go to artwork. Right. So he said they had this guy ride out with him and it was like the most glorious day ever. He was a photographer. They had a brush bar.

Nole (00:26.618)
Yeah.

Nole (00:38.532)
For the arts, yeah.

Kevin (00:49.602)
They had a TC trapped with fire. They had a structure fire. All these things happened. And then when the artwork came out for the station that they spent $100,000 on, the picture is them leaning over the meat cabinet in Stater Brothers looking at meat. And they're like, dude, we had the best day ever. And he got the he got us at the meat counter looking at tri-tip.

Nole (00:52.026)
Perfect.

Nole (01:12.682)
Okay.

Nole (01:16.088)
That is classic. He's like, this really represents who these guys are. I've known I know them now after spending 24 hours with them. This is really who they are. This is actually what they talked about all day, even though they had all this other rad stuff they did.

Kevin (01:18.488)
Pretty funny.

Kevin (01:24.93)
Yeah. This is them. This is them for sure.

Kevin (01:33.494)
Let's press record. I'm gonna just start prompting you.

Nole (01:37.826)
I press record. I'm gonna play the music. Do you have anything? 'Cause I have I have something you do, okay. Okay. No, if you if you've got stuff I'll follow you.

Kevin (01:39.546)
you already did.

Yeah, I got all kinds of stuff. We'll just yeah. What what do you got too?

No, but then yeah, just chime in 'cause yeah, we know what to do here.

Nole (01:51.898)
Yeah, yeah, that's what I that's what we do. Yeah. We like to we like to wing it. It's kinda fun. It's like you just walked in on a conversation.

There it is.

Kevin (02:14.305)
Welcome back to the Fire You Carry podcast. Dulcef it's great to see ya. I'm I'm also always excited when you have no sleeves on. Sleeves

Nole (02:19.393)
Yeah, good to see you too. I'm here.

Nole (02:24.791)
I think it's ninety seven degrees in the recording studio. I have the door open. Normally I close it for sound. It's way too hot. So this is what you get.

Kevin (02:32.789)
Yeah, and we had I always feel like a poser, but I got Dave Tebow's Jam and Competition Jiu Jitsu shirt on. there's the V there's that spirit too.

Nole (02:42.297)
for the for the YouTubes. What what do you got? Hold on, I can't see it.

Kevin (02:45.739)
I got Dave Thibaut's gym up in Santa Cruita where he's the black belt and an instructor. but you know, you you don't rock a jiu-jitsu shirt around. So I only keep it indoors. So if you people are thinking I'm being a poser, I am. But I just like the fit and it's a nice blue shirt. And we got it when we went up and did a little Jesus and jujitsu thing up there. he gave us a shirt and so he was a really cool guy. The main Brazilian black belt, I forget his name. So

I don't wear it out to think make people think I'm a jujitsu guy.

Nole (03:17.485)
Well, you don't want someone to challenge you, but let me ask you this. So if hypothetically I were to buy some of Jocko Willink's origin jeans, which I haven't done, but hypothetically if I did, that doesn't that's not a poser move because isn't that like a jujitsu brand?

Kevin (03:30.807)
Totally appropriate.

No, because this says Marco Aurelia's com competition team, like I'm on it. You know what I mean? Origin is just a brand that yeah, somebody would look at this and be like, you're on the competition team? No, my buddy

Nole (03:40.569)
I suppose there's a yeah, I suppose that's different.

Nole (03:47.326)
What about what about my favorite shorts? They're made by Ruka R V C A. I've heard people pronounce it Ruka, which doesn't make any sense. Okay, I'm not a surfer. I don't do any of that, but those are my favorite shorts. I think that's also a fight brand, isn't it? Didn't they promote jiu-jitsu stuff?

Kevin (03:53.793)
Yeah. Costa Mesa, born and bred, yeah.

Kevin (04:01.719)
Yeah.

Yeah, they sponsored well fighters and all kinds of stuff. They got it's a cool company. I've actually been there in Costa Mesa.

Nole (04:09.143)
I remember being really concerned as a young man about being a poser. Like I wore a lot of skateboarding gear and I I did end up becoming a skateboarder, but I was still not ever any good. But I was concerned about it, you know, it was like do I have the the street cred to wear this zero shirt or this, you know, toy machine shirt. And I didn't really, but I I don't know.

Kevin (04:24.939)
Yeah. No, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, that's like wearing a Ruka's some of my favorite board shorts. They're make good stuff. Yeah, you're not a poser. But speaking of surfing, dude, I know we get down on California, but I I I had like this very my girls who are now junior lifeguards, they think that they're Bethany Hamilton with two arms, dude. They think they're super surfing

Nole (04:37.035)
So I'm okay.

Nole (04:53.229)
Thank God.

Kevin (04:54.975)
They i but I said, Hey, I have limited time. They start school back on Monday. They're both in the middle school. And so I'm like, Hey, what do you guys want to do? I got one like one last family day with dad and mom. They're like, We want to go surf. All right, load up. Now we live an hour away from the beach, so it is an operation. I had to get tie downs, traps. We have four boards now, a long board, a medium board, a short board, a fun board. And then you

Nole (05:00.732)
yeah, it's time. Mm.

Nole (05:11.811)
That's rad.

Yeah.

Nole (05:23.961)
Wait a minute.

Kevin (05:24.993)
Yeah.

Nole (05:26.519)
What vehicle are you strapping these onto?

Kevin (05:28.373)
My wife's Honda Pilot.

Nole (05:30.339)
Do you just s stack them all on top of each other and ratchet them down? I don't know this operation. Okay.

Kevin (05:33.835)
Yeah, well you have you have surf racks, it's just nice foam top that goes on the roof. And then each board has a bag, right? So it's slightly pad. And then each then they they s all strap together like a sandwich. But there's a system. Yeah, you throw a couple of towels or whatever, you know, no big deals. And they're they're wrapped in a board bag, you know?

Nole (05:42.29)
Mm. Okay, they're in a pouch. Okay.

Nole (05:49.238)
Is there any kind of like separating device between them or they just touch? Okay, okay. All right, I'm falling. Yeah, sorry, I've totally derailed you. Go ahead.

Kevin (05:59.385)
But it's an operation, right? I mean, you gotta have so I said, Hey, because of where we live, it's not an easy thing to just go to the beach for an hour and come back after a surf session. So I'm like, hey, wife wants shade, so we have to bring a pop-up, we have to bring breakfast, lunch, and then the compromises we'll eat dinner on the way out, you know. But you gotta have waters, you have to have sunscreen, you got and for us, we have to have wetsuits, the whole thing. It's an operation, bro. And then pro tip, you take I have this giant

Nole (06:12.546)
Yeah.

Nole (06:16.193)
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nole (06:22.731)
Right. It's an operation, yeah.

Kevin (06:28.714)
insulated yeti jug. It's like a gallon. And some like big people drink yeah, but it's a gallon. And I turn on the hot water at the house and I fill it up with hot water. Yeah, hot water. So when you're out, the ocean is still it's really warm right now. But when you're in the ocean for a long time, you still get a little chilly, your feet are all sandy. When you walk back to the parking lot at the end of a long day,

Nole (06:32.353)
Okay. like a water bottle? No, that's a lot.

Nole (06:42.542)
Hold what?

Nole (06:53.207)
Yeah. Sure.

Kevin (06:57.954)
That Yeti keeps it nuclear warm and you pour that on your head, your feet, your hands, and it's like the most glorious thing you've ever had.

Nole (07:00.311)
Wow. You rinse out one of it. Wow.

That's amazing. I was thinking you were gonna say something ridiculous like you drink warm water while you're doing fitness 'cause your body processes it faster, which I've heard, but I don't believe it it's true because cold water is delicious. That's pretty smart. That's some deep, deep knowledge right there.

Kevin (07:07.566)
It's a pro tip.

Kevin (07:11.755)
No, no, no.

Kevin (07:19.33)
But I had this, I yeah, that's a pro tip. but we had one of my favorite people on the planet is Billy McDougal, long time paramedic. He's at 13s and he was at 41s for a long time and he's just a phenomenal human being and firefighter. But he said, Hey, we were gonna go to the beach, we'll meet you down there. And so the McDougal's met us down there, and he has two well, he has a teenage daughter and her friend that showed up, and we all spent hours.

in the water pushing our daughters into waves. And his daughter's got waves, her friend got waves, my daughter's got waves. And it's a the ocean can be very intimidating. And and when you see these girls light up, and girls specifically, when you see know that they hey, that they're with dad, they're in a safe spot, but when they got a wave and they took it all the way into the shore, it was just like pure elation and joy. And that makes me light up. It was really cool.

Nole (07:59.48)
Yeah, I'm intimidated.

Nole (08:08.398)
Yeah.

Nole (08:16.525)
That's awesome, dude. You you said something at the beginning of that beautiful story about California. And I recently have been trying to make a mindset shift about California because I can be just as down and negative about anybody I've ever heard when it comes to California, whether you're talking about the traffic, the taxes, the gun laws, the

Kevin (08:26.978)
Hmm.

Nole (08:40.483)
The laws in general, whatever it is, like the homelessness, like there's so many things to be negative about. And I've spent a lot of years being super negative about California and being vocal about not wanting to live here. But my wife and I, for years now, have come to the realization that this is where God wants our family. We're not supposed to move right now. I'm not the guy that's supposed to be moving to Kansas, Arkansas, Tennessee, wherever else. We're supposed to be here. We don't know why. It's not like God's like,

Kevin (08:42.402)
Politics, the whole thing.

Kevin (09:03.542)
Right.

Kevin (09:07.502)
Mm.

Nole (09:09.655)
I want you to be here because your son is gonna you know, it's not that. So I've been trying because of Philippians four eight, I've been trying to focus on the positive stuff and the thing that you just talked about is one of those

Kevin (09:24.376)
Alright, d I'm I'm not a I don't have that memorized. What's Philippines forty eight? What do got?

Nole (09:28.173)
Well, I was gonna have to paraphrase it, not quote it directly, but it's it's the verse where he says, Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is pure, whatever is honorable, whatever is commendable, if there's any excellence at all, focus on these things. I missed a couple parts, but it's this idea that we're supposed to focus on the essentially the positive. And so in a quest to do that in all kinds of

Kevin (09:37.086)
whatever's just whatever's yeah.

Kevin (09:42.07)
Hmm.

Kevin (09:50.456)
Mm.

Nole (09:54.87)
areas of my life, I've been trying to do that with California and just recognizing the fact that I can live this is my version of the story you just told, because you do, even though it's an hour drive and it's an operation, like you have the opportunity to go there. You can go do that for a day. Whereas our buddy who might live in Idaho or the guy I worked with yesterday, Kansas, they can't do that. And that's a big deal. And just recognizing the fact that I have the opportunity to

work in Altadina. I can live on a mountain with clean air. I can take my wife on a date and we can drive to I think we went to Claremont and look at rat antique shops and thrift stores and eat at whatever restaurant we want, whatever type of food. It's all amazing. Like there's so many different things that are so cool. And then you know, the weather, the the geography. I mean it's just it is really incredible in a lot of ways. Lots of negatives.

Kevin (10:39.287)
Yes.

Kevin (10:51.926)
It's con it's contentment though. You're you're saying you need like wherever I think we need more contentment. Like what we have is enough and what we have is beautiful. And we could make this work whether we're in a wherever we are in the world and where God has us, like but God has us here today. I should be content with that. I should be grateful for that.

Nole (10:58.19)
For sure.

Nole (11:11.725)
For sure. And I caught myself telling my son, Indy. I caught myself talking to him about his attitude and how he looks at what he considers problems in his life. And how he can choose to have a bad attitude about it and be miserable and bummed out, or he can choose to go, I can't change this, and so I'm gonna have a good a good out and I I found myself giving him that advice while not following it myself, while being grumpy about the traffic and angry about the homeless people at the at the off ramp where I get off and and realizing I'm just

Kevin (11:28.908)
Yeah.

Kevin (11:34.114)
Right, right.

Nole (11:41.236)
making myself unhappy for no reason. God's got us here. I'm not leaving. I can't do anything about any of this stuff that I'm upset about. So what instead can I focus on? And I'm baby steps. I'm still grousing about traffic. You know, I'm I'm still wrestling with it. But but I do feel better just recognizing like, hey, God's got us here. And no matter where I go, I'm gonna be able to find stuff where I'm like, this is terrible. This shouldn't be this way. And you know, that's the world. But anyway.

Kevin (12:04.173)
Right.

And and this is an interesting concept that I had to learn the hard way by pain, right? But like when I was in the throes of addiction, I said Long Beach is the problem. This city is a forsaken city and these people are. Guess what? I had the same problems in Ventura, right? And so, like wherever you go, there you are, right? And so like it doesn't really matter, like you think that, hey, this will fix your problem, but if you haven't done like

Nole (12:20.247)
Right. Right.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin (12:36.3)
Some inner worker, you have a faith, a family, a fitness, career, the service, the whole thing. Like if you haven't done that work, it's you're gonna be your own problem wherever you go. I I'm I'm speaking to myself. So I feel like no matter where I go, there I am, I better do the work to make sure that I'm comfortable in my own skin here, now, today. But I have this epiphany.

Nole (12:55.447)
Yeah. So find find something to appreciate wherever you're at.

Kevin (12:59.788)
So after hours of doing, you know, you're you're being of s service. we're helping the kids and it was really joyful to like watch them do their thing. But of course then you gotta get the sandwich and you gotta make sure there's no sand on it, and then the wife needs something and there's a lot of activities and then I gotta carry all the stuff down. So a couple trips to the beach. And at some point in the afternoon, everybody's cool, the girls are cool, the wives are cool, and Billy's like, Hey, can we get a little session? And

Nole (13:16.483)
Yeah. Right.

Kevin (13:28.556)
ourselves the wives approved it and then we grabbed boards and we went out. Now the waves were not good, but it's 75 degrees. The water's probably 73 degrees. And in the surfing world it's called trunking in. When you can just wear board shorts, no t-shirt. It's a very unique time in late summer in the very south San Diego that you can do this. Normally

Nole (13:31.64)
You have our blessing.

Nole (13:42.652)
yeah.

Nole (13:46.849)
Mm, okay, yeah.

Kevin (13:54.659)
The Pacific Ocean is in the fifty degree range or sixty degree range, and you have wetsuits all the time. And everybody's jealous of these Hawaiians because they can trunk it all year long. And they're just these natural, rad, buff, bronze, and beautiful dudes. Billy and I trunked it. The waves are not good, but we are hootin' and hollering, chairing waves, party waves, he's getting one, I'm getting one, and we're going out, and there's really not anybody out there because it was really windy and

Nole (13:58.562)
Right. So you can't stay in there, yeah. Right.

Nole (14:05.602)
Right.

Nole (14:09.56)
Of course.

Kevin (14:23.488)
And the waves weren't great. But I had this thing that in like you're there has to be something about us being literally sitting in nature. There has to be something about grounding like in water. The sun is shining. There's animals beneath your feet. I felt the power of God's in universe, right? And more than anything, I'm just sharing this really fun thing with a really a dude that I love and respect. And it was you know, it's nothing to write home about. I got a couple waves, you got a couple waves, but I realized like

Nole (14:24.876)
Hm.

Nole (14:33.803)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nole (14:40.803)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (14:52.228)
this is my happy place. Like yours, I realize is the mountains, and that's where you feel peace and serenity. And I was trying to figure out why, but I remember when I was growing up, that was an escape for us. We had like me and a couple buddies, I would always go to the beach and get in the water. I was a terrible surfer, but it was an escape, it was freedom, and it was like a reprieve from the daily chaos of home. And I remember it wasn't like a competitive thing. I wasn't trying to go pro.

Nole (14:53.677)
Hm.

Mm-hmm.

Nole (15:04.61)
Mm.

Kevin (15:20.642)
We were just hooting and hollering for each other if we got something good or if we didn't. And I that that had like I had this deja vu flashback to when we were like fifteen years old. You know what I mean? And I was like, this is it. This is a this is a safe, this is a cool thing. Like this is I realize I never put my you know, I'm not mature enough at fifteen to realize that that what was going on. But I at forty seven, I can really appreciate an hour and a half in the water with a buddy.

Nole (15:36.184)
Hm.

Nole (15:41.987)
That that's what's happening, yeah.

Kevin (15:49.003)
Hooting and hollering and terrible waves and like realizing that, this is a really because no matter what we got a lot going on. And I did not think about anything out. It was just very joyful to be in the water. And and this might sound crazy to you, but when you have to get out into the break and you have to go to where the surf breaks, you have to go under the waves. It's called duck diving.

Nole (16:00.044)
Yeah.

Nole (16:11.993)
Mm. I've seen it. Yeah, I've never done it. You've seen it.

Kevin (16:14.946)
When you grab this board and you start paddling out, you're hot and dry, and the first step that comes in, you hold your breath and you go underneath the water, it's almost baptismal. I don't know how to explain that. But when the water rolls over your head and you come out in your first breath and the sun is shining your face, if you can't feel like a spiritual presence at that point, I don't know, man. And I know there's a lot of douchey cultural things about surfing.

Nole (16:24.407)
Hm, yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (16:44.108)
And there's like these terrible like culture about you snake my wave, bro, or and there's like can you be aggressive. But yesterday was none of that. And it was really cool. So long winded, but I I really enjoyed it. I was like, it made me content and grateful and said, if I can do this with a friend more often, I'd love to do it.

Nole (16:48.365)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nole (17:02.711)
That's red. That's red.

Good experience.

Kevin (17:09.516)
Well, in the w I'm just like this is the li largest curveball in the world. And I don't have any expertise or homework in this, but I wanted to talk to you about the thought of tough love. Tough love. And it's an interesting because I know for my kids, like I know what I believe is right or wrong or what's the best path for And it's usually based on my own experience.

Nole (17:18.201)
Mm.

Kevin (17:37.721)
That I failed at this miserably. But I realized a lot recently that I've been sheltering them from these things and saying, just listen to me. I know this is the way, you know? And in my own family, I have we all have family members that struggle. And I have some that are struggling right now, watching other family members enable them, like paying their bills or making excuses for them. And it's almost a codependency there. Like I can see that it's stunting their.

Nole (17:49.624)
Mm.

Nole (18:00.589)
Mm.

Kevin (18:07.384)
Their growth. It's stunting like them feeling the actual pain so that they can actually get better. And I I do believe that like pain is the touchstone of all growth. And it's an interesting concept because I can judge them and say, you're enabling them. Stop doing that. Stop doing that. But on a micro level at home, I'm doing the same thing. I'm like, no, you can't do that. No, you can't do this. No, you can't do that. Yeah. I don't know your thoughts on that.

Nole (18:29.442)
Hm.

Nole (18:35.467)
Yeah. It's a tough

Nole (18:41.305)
This kind of for me gets into a realm where I have to be careful how I talk about certain things because my my examples like yours come from my family and I have I mean it's it's that question, right, of how much do we talk about our kids and what they're struggling with on this podcast that they don't have a chance to be here to represent themselves or choose choose what we talk about. So obviously we leave a lot of this the details out. But yeah, I will say that for me

Kevin (18:58.254)
Right, right.

Right, right.

Nole (19:10.071)
I'm in a place where there's been a few instances recently where the older two have wanted to do something financially that in Heather and I's mind doesn't make a lot of sense based on, you know, what their what their current stated goals are, which is to to get married and move out on their own and start their own life. You know, that requires a certain set of financial actions. And yet, you know.

They're young people wanting to do young people things and so they're like, Well, I'm gonna go do this and you're like, Well, if you look at the amount of money that's gonna cost you and the amount of money you make, all you're doing is extending out that the time to get to where you're saying you wanna be. And I've done exactly what you're talking about and you y it it's not great.

Kevin (19:41.325)
Right.

Nole (19:58.958)
But then

having the the ability, the necessity to let them do those things and let them quote unquote make those mistakes so that they can learn from them is something that we actively talk about. But then when it comes to Indy, who's much younger, we're definitely more in a phase of, you know, no you can't do that. And when he asks us why, it it's well, just because we said so. Because we either

don't wanna take the time to explain it. I shouldn't say we, I should just say me. Heather handles all this stuff better than I do, but

But yeah, there is that there is that line where

they get to a certain age and you just know, or at least I just know from experience, that if they're anything like me, it's not really gonna matter what I say or how I instruct them, if it's something that they want to do, the the lesson of what happens by doing that isn't really gonna land unless they do it and you can't protect them forever. But where do you start letting them have that leash? Because if I let Indy, you know, if I let him

Kevin (21:05.741)
No.

Kevin (21:13.507)
Right.

Nole (21:18.057)
run his life, he'll just be on the video games all day. He's not gonna feel or experience any consequences to that personally until he's much older in life and is a dead beat on the couch playing video games all day. And and he may not ever even be able to connect those two things, right? So you gotta be careful how you implement that. But it but you've got to find those places to let them learn those lessons.

Kevin (21:26.68)
Right.

Correct, right.

Kevin (21:35.852)
I had this

Kevin (21:41.497)
Yeah, it's a delicate unknown world, right? Like I re I you know, I hate to say it, but I use y you're better at this, but I'm using some AI stuff now and it's fairly fascinating. But ChatGPT told me earlier when I was trying to help a family member, it's his common signs of codependent enabling behavior. One, protecting them from their consequences. For example, paying their bills, covering for missed work, things like that.

Nole (21:52.791)
It is scary.

Nole (22:00.985)
Mm.

Nole (22:04.664)
Hmm.

Nole (22:08.202)
Mm, mm-hmm.

Kevin (22:09.612)
Number two, keeping secrets about their substance abuse, right? number three, following through, not I'm sorry, not following through on boundaries or consequences. Number four, making excuses for their behavior. And then this is five was avoiding the topic or withdrawing emotionally. I'm I've done all these things, right? I've done all these things at different times. And so I could point from afar and say, hey, you guys are doing this, but I I've done all those things at certain points, like

Nole (22:12.663)
Hm. Yeah.

Nole (22:20.44)
Yeah.

Nole (22:28.663)
I do a lot of that.

Kevin (22:40.16)
And it's interesting, dynamic to think about. okay, like, hey, that's not those are common enabling behaviors, right? And then I can do it in my own house, I can do it in other relationships. And like, even for instance, like the phone thing for teenagers that go to public school is a daily battle. And we have all the restrictions that you could possibly have, but it still becomes a battle and it's and it's a new world.

Nole (22:57.304)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (23:04.878)
Yeah.

Kevin (23:06.572)
That's how they actually communicate through video games with their buddies or the phone is text messages and stuff. And so we limit it, but it's a constant battle. And then there'll be times where like, hey, we're taking your phone away. It's the biggest punishment and the most the one that we respond to easy. And then what inevitably happens is we break because I'm like, I I need to go get something done in the garage. If I give them the phone, I know they're gonna be good for an hour.

Nole (23:10.371)
Yeah.

Nole (23:21.303)
Yeah. Totally.

Nole (23:33.806)
Right.

Kevin (23:34.71)
And so I've even bent my own like rules or boundaries, which then the kids will just walk all over that. You know what I mean? Like and I'm never following through with my word, which is really the only thing I have.

Nole (23:40.665)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (23:45.241)
Mm.

Kevin (23:47.661)
Yeah, it's it's a weird dynamic, but I know that's not like somebody like as dramatic. The phone thing isn't as dramatic as somebody that's dealing with substance abuse, which is totally different. But it's it's in the same realm, I think. Setting boundaries.

Nole (24:01.517)
That terminology, yeah. No, for sure. I mean it's just a an earlier forming version of that, really, I think. Like it's a g it's a gateway drug to the drugs essentially. that's far too oversimplified, but the the word codependency for me is an interesting one because

Kevin (24:14.124)
Yeah, right.

Nole (24:29.899)
I feel like that's a realm of kind of this mental health relationship space where I don't I don't have any education in that. And if someone asked me what that word meant, I wouldn't be able to give them a good a good example. And the part of like the part of what you just said that I don't understand or maybe just haven't thought about enough is why.

Why do we do those things and

What is the codependency word? What does that mean for from my perspective? So, you know, when when I've told Indy he can only in he can only play video games on Friday and Saturday night and only if he's playing with his cousins or one of his friends. But then I need to get something done and it's Monday afternoon and I'm like, Yeah, you can play for an hour right now so that I can have my free time to do whatever. When I do that, no, okay.

Kevin (25:31.948)
Yeah, that's not codependency at all.

Like codependency is like an it's an unhealthy relationship pattern. It's where the person is like losing their identity, their self-worth by prioritizing the other person's needs. Right. So they're not taking care of themselves. They're always just walking around eggshells trying to take care of this other person. It's like you're doing like extreme caretaking. think of that lady. I don't remember if you remember that lady that we used to go on, she was morbidly obese, and her mother

was like a hundred pounds and had a wheelbarrow full of hostess snacks, ding-dongs, cookies, cakes. She just dumped this on this person. This and it's that's def that is extreme of like, that's a codependency, unhealthy relationship where she wanted to make this person happy because she's like, Mom, I need more food. And this lady was 700 pounds and you there was no healthy boundaries there where she was getting her help. She was just enabling that.

Nole (26:21.656)
Hm.

Kevin (26:32.544)
on an extreme level, just dumping hostess and cakes on her.

Nole (26:36.449)
So the codependency side on the side of the enabler would be then their unwillingness to face making this person unhappy or uncomfortable by highlighting their behavior or telling them to stop.

Kevin (26:46.764)
Correct. Now weak boundaries are yeah, weak boundaries are part of that, right? And then it can start, I think that's what I'm getting to, it can start when they're young, like weak boundaries, but when they get older and there's a failure to thrive and they're thirty eight and living in your house, and you're you know, you're still doing those same behaviors. That's where I don't know where the cutoff is, but at some point that bird needs to get out of the nest, right? And so I think there are weak boundaries like

Nole (26:52.505)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (26:56.569)
Mm.

Nole (27:03.779)
Right.

Nole (27:09.005)
Yeah.

Kevin (27:14.772)
you're experiencing guilt or anxiety, hiding a partner's thing. you know, when saying no, like are you feeling guilt when you say no, that's codependency, like

Nole (27:24.621)
Hm. So for then so for Indy walking in this in this direction, if he turns into a a just a beast of a young man when I tell him he can't video game, if I start just letting him video game whenever he has an attitude, that would then I think be moving in that direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (27:44.949)
Yes. C I in my opinion. I am no expert. But I feel like if we break, like my w young daughter can has came out of the womb crying and hasn't stopped for eleven years. But she knows that that's a weakness of mean, especially when I'm tired and I'm coming home for work. She could just emotionally break down and say, No, daddy, please let me know and then I'll break. I'll break. I'm like, I don't want to hear this anymore, right? That's terrible. I'm failing there, right?

Nole (27:58.338)
Yeah.

Nole (28:08.215)
You'll do it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hm.

Kevin (28:13.514)
If I if I said no, this is the family rule, this is what it is, we have to stick with it, knowing that the heat is on. Like she's gonna scream and cry. And what I what I I'm supposed to do is say, This is unacceptable. When you're ready to come out of your room, you're gonna go up and cry it out as much as you want. We're always here for you, but you're not gonna get the phone. And then what happens normally? It goes up there, screams, cries, kicks.

Nole (28:18.498)
Right.

Nole (28:22.263)
Mm.

Nole (28:33.369)
Hmm.

Kevin (28:39.438)
And then ten minutes later she comes down, Can I have a snack? Yeah, maybe let's get you a snack.

Nole (28:44.119)
Hmm. Yeah. So there's gotta be, in order to deal with that stuff appropriately, there has to be some level of sacrifice on our part. We have to deal with the negative reaction. We have to deal with the consequences of of walking through that, which is probably gonna be it's gonna be inconvenient. It's gonna be uncomfortable, especially as the relationships get more advanced. Which is interesting to me as I'm just trying to process through this, it's interesting to me that.

Kevin (28:59.095)
Right.

Kevin (29:05.463)
Right.

Nole (29:15.351)
That there's in life, I think everything is a parallel back to God and like the gospel story. I feel like this is probably really akin to, and forgive me, please, pastors listening and theologians, but if I'm wrong. But I feel like this is easily akin to like Jesus coming down, living his sinless life, and then dying to give save us from our sins, right? To give us that opportunity to be saved.

That process for him was difficult. It was arduous. It was painful. It was you know, it was separation. It was all those things. It wasn't just he came down and waved a magic wand and was like, everything's great. He had to actually suffer. And so maybe in some small way, this is a little kind of window into that, a little our own little version. And that's probably a little bit heretical to say, but but maybe it's our own little version of that sacrifice. Like we have to, in order to help the people that we love, we have to

be willing to sacrifice and do the hard thing.

Kevin (30:15.958)
Yeah, I think you're spot on. There was an interesting like YouTube video I saw that this guy was talking about. There's a lot of popular adages or sayings, and it's not what it's not biblical. It's not what you say, like, God hope helps those who help themselves. And he was like, No, like come to me to all who are need rest. Like, come to me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, not help yourself, like, come to me. And there's like

Nole (30:32.875)
Help themselves, yeah.

Nole (30:38.925)
Hm. Yeah. Right.

Right, right.

Kevin (30:46.546)
I hate the sin, love the sinner. And it's like, no, that's not that's not what he said, you know, and or money is the root of all evil, or this too shall pass. There's all a lot of these common sayings. Cleanliness is, but it a lot of it is not that. He said that there will be strife, there will be struggle in this world, and that he alone is the the savior, right? Like and I I'm pastors are gonna fillet us for this, but I do think that a lot of that is like part of it, right? Like

Nole (30:55.107)
Yeah, yeah.

Nole (31:02.201)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (31:15.256)
you gotta help yourself. Or like, no, you're gonna have to but I do think part of them working out their own problem, becoming self sufficient is our job. Like my job is not to make them a sandwich, it's to teach them how to make the sandwich so that they can do that themselves for eventually.

Nole (31:31.297)
Right. Yeah.

Kevin (31:33.965)
And it's a weird cutoff because when they're the toddler, they're the elementary school, you're gonna make the sandwich. That's our job. I don't know where it is, but I'm starting to realize that hey, they they they're they need more responsibility and they need to take more action and not just just because my wife is home and she's a homemaker doesn't mean that they can scream at her from upstairs and say, Get me a glass of water. That's absurd, right? Like that's absurd.

Nole (31:58.764)
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Hmm. Mm. Yeah. It's that it's that dichotomy, right? It's that realization that if we if we do those things and let those things become a thing when they're young, all of those things are gonna create a pattern, create a personality, a belief system, whatever that when they're older is gonna start to have real consequences. If your kid is a a butthole

Kevin (32:03.167)
And I have to correct that, in my opinion.

Nole (32:27.777)
And is demanding water and video games from upstairs, you know, that's that's got some really limited localized con consequences. But when they become an adult and they move out of the world and are now on their own, suddenly those consequences become serious and like life altering. We have to deal with the the difficulty, the the pain, the extra work in order to teach them those lessons and pass them those things on when they're young.

So that when they're old there's a verse about this teach a

Kevin (33:04.812)
Manda fish teeting Yeah, no, it's not.

Nole (33:06.241)
that one. That's another one of those things that I don't think is in the Bible. But it sounds like it is. It's something like teaching young man the way he should go and when he grows old he shall never depart from it or something like that. I'm butchering that paraphrase but

Kevin (33:23.32)
There's a there's definitely an interesting dynamic. I always I you know, I don't know why I do this, but sometimes I think it's douchey that you know, the first responder or the firewife or those specific challenges. But the longer I get into it, I realize that that is a thing. And so for example, I've been working with some guys on the home front and I'm asking them, What's your typical like morning like when you get home? And he's like, Well, you it's the same thing over and over. I have a Celsius and four zins on the drive home. I listen to punk rock music or death metal.

And then I come in and I, you know, I notice that all the dishes are still there and the laundry's not good and the lawn needs moments. So I just start going in and start doing all this stuff. And I'm like, how does that how does that usually go? Not good. And all of a sudden she's pissed off for some reason, you know? And so I feel like I I can't talk for the women folk out there, but I feel like they think less than like, I didn't do my job, or you think I didn't do my job while you were gone.

Nole (34:00.729)
Start working. Yep. Knocking them out.

Nole (34:10.883)
Sounds vaguely familiar.

Nole (34:18.905)
Right.

Kevin (34:20.524)
And then he's not connecting, he's not, he's still in fight or flight mode, you know what I mean? And it's still just coming in hot. But this literally just happened to me. I was on for three days. So working a paramedic, super busy squad in the middle day. And then the second day we had a commercial building fire from 2 p.m. to 2 a.m. I was physically done and hadn't slept in three days. And I come home and it's just the tornado of emotion.

Nole (34:24.525)
Yeah.

Kevin (34:50.368)
a tornado and instead of like doing I think the appropriate response is I should have communicated on the way home that I'm at a one out of ten right now. I should have communicated that. Instead I was fasting with Zinn and caffeine on board and I'm coming in and everyone's losing their mind and at some point I was just like Stop everybody shut up You know what I mean?

Nole (34:59.797)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nole (35:09.379)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Kevin (35:18.828)
You sit over there. You sit over there. One at a time. Everybody's gonna have a turn. And I'm just like, l I'm you know, like and then they're all crying, and I'm like, you first, what's your problem? Let me fix it. You, what's your problem? Let me fix it. You, what's your problem? Let me fix it, you know? And then I'm like, can some can I take a shower and take a dump and take a nap? Like people, you know, why can't you guys figure this out? It was the the worst thing.

Nole (35:21.635)
Kevin (35:48.023)
A the day didn't go well, right? And then by the end of the day I had to apologize. I am sorry, but I know that there I I know that, you know, I have a bad night protocol, I have all these things, but sometimes none of those things in the middle of the storm it there was no way I was gonna go sit in the ice, then go sauna, and then go get kettlebell work in, and then breathe, pray and meditate. There's I just I I was a storm and I walked into a storm. But I

Nole (36:00.372)
Mm. Yeah.

Nole (36:07.896)
Right.

Right.

Nole (36:15.459)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (36:17.1)
I think the only saving grace is that I recognized it. I had to apologize immediately to all three of them. And then I said I I had to explain to them that I don't I am I'm extremely tired and I w I I'm probably not gonna be the guy to make dinner tonight. And I'd like to try to go to bed early if possible. And I it's not an excuse for my behavior. I can do better. but and then the next day, guess what? I had a full night's sleep and the next day the sun was shining and everything's great. But I

Nole (36:34.817)
Mm.

Nole (36:45.433)
Hmm.

Kevin (36:47.2)
my our own advice that we talk to guys. You know, we have bad night protocols that we had Evan Hall's quest on. We have all these tools that we can have as far as pulling over, turning your hat backwards, doing Wim Hof breathing. I did none of these things. And I but I think sometimes I don't know how you feel about this. When the storm is here, it's probably not appropriate for me to just go check out and do all these things. Like they needed they needed something. But not yelling, but they needed something.

Nole (36:59.705)
Right. Right.

Nole (37:12.215)
Right.

Nole (37:15.597)
Yeah. I mean that's the reality of just about everything. I mean, we can have the best plans and protocols and all that kind of stuff, but there are times and places where that's stuff's not appropriate and where it's not possible. When when you're getting ready to go on an international flight with your family, which I've never done actually, I shouldn't say international, but when you're getting ready to go on a flight and you're trying to do Wim Hof breathing in the airport

Kevin (37:40.342)
Mm.

Nole (37:41.846)
with your family and your kids there, like you can't do that. They're gonna be embarrassed. You look like a weirdo. Like don't you can't do that. Yeah, someone's gonna report you and, you know, you're gonna go to the back room. I've never been to the back room, but I have tried to do Wim Hoff breathing in an airport and I, you know, my family was annoyed and it ruined that leg of the trip. So don't do that. But but yeah, there are those moments where you gotta you gotta man up and deal with it. And dude, they just the just the last week

Kevin (37:46.998)
No, TSA is gonna come to you. Yeah, yeah.

Nole (38:11.873)
I came home after being at work for four days in a row and I started doing the dishes thing. And this is literally something that we talk about on this podcast frequently. And it comes up, we talk about it at the station and at the program. And and I'm doing that thing. And she's like, Hey, can you not do that right now? And I'm like, I just gotta finish this. I've just got to finish there's only a few left. And I'm and I finished them. This is the dumbest thing you can do, right? Just like don't A, don't start. Don't start your day like that. I know that. And then B

Kevin (38:31.542)
Finish it. You gotta finish the task.

Kevin (38:36.397)
Yeah, you're an idiot.

Nole (38:41.707)
If she says to you, Hey, can you not do that right now? You better stop in that moment. Not because she's gonna get angry and fly off the handle at you, but because you realize she you should realize in that moment, I should realize in that moment, this isn't what she needs. This isn't what she wants. I'm not doing anything good. So time to pause and forget, you know, forget myself and the mode that I'm in of like, I gotta check this box. I gotta check this box on the checkoff sheet. But I finished the dishes and you know.

Then felt dumb about it later 'cause it didn't become a huge issue. But it was a moment where I was like, Why, why? And I didn't have the excuse like you, I didn't there's no busy squad for me. So

Kevin (39:18.112)
No, but I do think I think we bring we do these things to bring order and chaos so that your life doesn't seem unmanageable. When I know where the spoons are and I know the dishes are put away and I know where my t-shirts are and and and I'm organized, I feel like we have to do that. In a fire station, for fifty seven thousand years, the spoons are in the same place. The forks are in the same place. Like the dishes are done at night and the dishwasher is clean in the morning.

Nole (39:25.191)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (39:47.757)
And I think that brings order to chaos because we never know what happens. I think that's that happens naturally. And so many times I think like we feel like a guest somehow when we come home and I have to look for the toaster or the dishes are not put away. And then and no whatever I'm like, you can feel like a guest in your own home. And maybe you're not needed. And so you try to bring order, which doesn't work either. But I would suggest like, and I'm talking to myself here.

Nole (39:52.084)
Mm. Yeah.

Kevin (40:16.77)
We've talked about this before, but maybe like literally coming home and putting your to-do list in your pocket and then and and then like having some couch time or saying, What do you need? And letting her vent, letting the kids vent, letting whatever they need to. If you're tired, no problem. You're probably not gonna fall asleep. Just sit on the couch and chill out.

Nole (40:23.854)
Hmm.

Nole (40:38.475)
I have had the hardest time and I can't remember who told us this, but you're it was one of the guests on our podcast at some point. But your your example of letting your family know on your way home, like, hey, I'm at a one out of ten right now, like doing that communication. I've thought about that many times and have only done it a couple. And I think there's a part of me that I think that's a little bit of pride where

Kevin (40:51.117)
Yeah.

Kevin (41:05.046)
Mm.

Nole (41:06.083)
Especially working where I do now, because the reality is I work at an incredibly slow fire station. Right now, I'm I'm working a lot of extra days, but they're all here. I'm not getting up at night. I'm not running a ton of calls. I'm not I it but it is still taxing for sure. I'm not gonna discount that. I mean, I go home and I feel I feel tired, but it's in a different way. Anyway, but I still hesitate, not only hesitate, I just don't do it, to let my wife know, you know, hey, I'm

Kevin (41:18.924)
It's still taxing.

Nole (41:33.731)
Feeling this way is kind of where I'm at today. And I think that's because I don't want to admit to any weakness, right? But what happens is

Kevin (41:40.844)
Yeah, you're an army ranger, you're a firefighter. We don't say we're you don't know. Yeah.

Nole (41:43.96)
Right, I'm not I'm not weak. But but then the the then what happens is I get home and I'm clearly not a hundred percent and I make that immediately apparent. And then instead of having that that knowledge ahead of time and some expectations on, you know, how the interaction in the morning or the day might go, instead of setting that up appropriately, I've I've now just blown everything up by throwing, you know, by using it as it's a hand grenade now, instead of like a I sent a message ahead of time, now it's a hand grenade that I just cooked off.

Kevin (42:13.134)
Correct.

Nole (42:13.375)
in the kitchen. Dude, my computer's so hot right now. Let me angle my fan. It's it's not smoking, but

Kevin (42:17.782)
Mm.

Kevin (42:21.272)
You're not gonna like it, but I think I got that from Brene Brown, who was like

Nole (42:24.673)
Well that's where yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know who that is, so I can't not like it.

Kevin (42:27.39)
Okay, this is like some sort of Oprah lady that talks to people. Women love her, but but I did think that that was valuable. Now, I like it because when we communicate that if you're at a one out of ten, you put a st a stat to it, you put a number to it, or a two out of ten every day for multiple days or months, or w well, we need to address that. That's depression. Right? But if it's totally called for and you're on for four or five days and it was taxing and you couldn't really get comfortable in a

Nole (42:48.449)
Hm.

Kevin (42:57.432)
twin bed sharing it with four snoring guys and you're at a two out of a ten and you need a nap, that's totally appropriate, right? And I think at the same time, like, you know, like if she sometimes it'll gas me up. I could be at a four or five and I'll ask her first and she's like, I'm at a three. I know I can suck it up. I can be like, cool, I got the seven. I I I'm at four or five. I can easily get the seven today. You know, I got the rest.

Nole (43:05.346)
Wait.

Nole (43:16.377)
Mm.

Nole (43:21.689)
Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (43:26.796)
And that's that's where I make I'm like and she's like, How are you doing? And I'm like, good, I got the seven, you know? I'm really at a four or five, but I say I got the seven, you know? And that's where I think we can come in as take the lion's share sometimes. But that strategy is very helpful on my drive home. It's just to say, Hey, you need anything on the way in? No, cool. I'm like, cool, I'm at a one. We didn't sleep for three days. And she's like, All right, if she's at a one too, then we say, All plans are canceled.

Nole (43:34.403)
Hm. Yeah.

Nole (43:55.438)
Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.

Kevin (43:56.163)
You know what I mean? Like, no, we're not going to your mom's house. No, we're not going surfing. No, we're not not have hosting people at our house. Like all the plans are canceled. We are gonna sit on the couch and vegetate or have fun out in the pool or just sit in the sun and breathe.

Kevin (44:15.34)
Speaking of movies, I'm pivoting. Have you seen the old Henry movie?

Nole (44:17.495)
No. Pivot.

Nole (44:23.167)
Old Henry? No, I'd never even heard of it.

Kevin (44:24.086)
Old Henry. dude, you gotta okay, I gotta I get you on this old Henry. Do you know who the actor, what's the guy's name? He was in like Buster Scruggs and he's kind of this character country guy. Tim Nelson, Tim Blake Nelson. He is the lead in this Western shoot up type of thing. And I can't give you too much, but you have to watch this movie, Old Henry. There's some violence, full disclosure. It's a Western.

Nole (44:36.438)
I can see his face but I don't I don't know who it I don't know his name.

Nole (44:51.991)
Well, I mean, I love violence. If an if a Western isn't violent, it's not worth watching.

Kevin (44:53.942)
It's like a western.

Kevin (44:58.75)
Tim Blake Nelson, I looked it up. That's his name. You will not know his name, but you will know his face and voice immediately.

Nole (45:04.343)
Yeah. I immediately can see him and yeah, and hear him. He's very very distinctive. Okay. Old Henry.

Kevin (45:09.334)
It's it's awesome. So when we we had a day, we we're both out of one. The kids went to their friend's house and then they were riding bikes and stuff and I was just vegetating and I was like, this looks like a relaxing thing to fall asleep to. It wasn't relaxing and we didn't fall asleep, but we thoroughly enjoyed this western shoot up. It was awesome.

Nole (45:31.031)
I'm gonna check it out. How old is it? Hmm. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna check it out. I love westerns.

Kevin (45:33.464)
I don't know. I think it's old.

Kevin (45:38.742)
Yeah, I think you'll like it. Old Henry.

Nole (45:40.483)
Fantastic. Fantastic. Dude we

Kevin (45:43.982)
Well that that was the only thing on my mind. I don't know if you got anything else, but I was talking about tough love enabling, not do not coming in as the tornado and adding fuel to the fire.

Nole (45:53.132)
It's good. I don't want to go too far down this road because we've talked about this a lot, but the thing that I keep thinking about and have been asking people about is where's the line? And for this with the codependency, the enabling side of it, like thinking about, you know, kids, family, close friends, okay, all that kind of starts to make sense to me. But then I go into work world and I look at

Kevin (46:20.334)
Mm.

Nole (46:21.517)
guys at work with behaviors that I know are destructive or less than ideal. And it's like, where is my place there? And where is my place there from fireman to fireman, from fireman up the chain to a captain? When do I say something? You know, that type of thing, it becomes a lot more it becomes a lot more complicated and also difficult to talk about on the podcast because of course, if I'm witnessing negative behavior, I can't talk about it.

here because there are guys that listen to this podcast that are gonna go, he's talking about so and so, right. And we don't do that here. So it's an interesting thing because there's a couple of well, one one specifically, but there's one example of a guy at my station that I would love to or I feel almost compelled to talk to him about something in his in his behavior, but I don't I don't know if it's the right thing to do. I don't know if it's my place. I don't know if it's you know, I just I don't know. And

So then again, that's another one of those interesting questions. Like, where where is the line? And I'm not personally responsible for the men that I work with and their lifestyles. Like I and I don't want to moralize, you know, I don't want to say, you know, thou shalt not do this. If they don't have the same belief system as me, then, you know, I get all that. But at the same time, like I care about these dudes, you know, they're my brothers, right? To to one extent an extent or another.

Kevin (47:41.923)
Yeah.

Nole (47:45.208)
You know, not to the level where I would call you or like my Kenobi or somebody like that my brother, but still, you know, there is that. So it creates that weird there's that weird aspect of our job, which I think is pretty unique and really just exists in the first responder military community where we have these closer levels of bonding. But I'll let it stand. Anyway, you underst you understand what I'm saying. Camaraderie, that's a better word than bonding.

Kevin (47:52.536)
Yeah.

Kevin (48:10.904)
Camaraderie.

Yeah, I I there's no nobody knows the answer to this, right? But I I feel very blessed. But it's been purposeful that I surround myself with stellar people and I I just have nothing but all stars. And the reality is I'm the lamest dude on our team, like as far as professionally goes. And they are talking to me about, hey, you should probably stop talking and start doing. You know what I mean? Like and so I'm glad I need those people to call me out and do that. But I have been able to talk to people when I see something.

Nole (48:22.914)
Right. Right.

Nole (48:35.906)
Right.

Kevin (48:44.674)
that's either morally or legally wrong or I see something that's a glaring issue that everyone sees and everyone talks about, but nobody says anything. I have had the opportunity to like sit if I have a one on one and I'm able to just pose a question. Have you ever thought about this? Is this ever an issue for you? If he says, no, I got it all figured out, I said, all right, bro, have a great day. But if he does have an ounce of humility or say, Yeah, I yeah, this is an issue, you know, and I said, Do you ever want to talk about it?

And not coming from a point of like I know better than you, but just having a safe guy that he can talk to and then say, Hey, I'll keep it between us, but tell me what's going on. And if you'd like some suggestions I can offer him. If not, you got like we'll go there. But if he doesn't want help and he if you ask him and says, No, I got it all figured out, well then cool. Then I'm we try it.

Nole (49:36.91)
Yeah. No, that's good. And I think for me the the biggest point I can take out of that is to recognize that if I if I feel like I should be addressing something or having that conversation, I need to do it in the in the way that you just described. I think that's perfect. And also need to do it early because something that I do all too often is I I procrastinate and I hold off and I'll let something kind of sit and kind of smolder and then all of a sudden it blows up. And and so then instead of having that type of conversation

Kevin (49:51.789)
Yeah.

Kevin (50:01.721)
Totally.

Nole (50:05.099)
I'm I'm at the table one day and I go, Dude, what are you doing? And I just aggressively address it that way. And that's that's not a that's less than ideal. It's not effective.

Kevin (50:15.992)
Yeah, and the lamest part of our culture is we're the first people to put down everybody else when they're not there. And your dad, Pastor Jeff Lilly, said it always sticks with me that he's like, I'm working this year on not seeing ill of anybody. And I'm like, Wow, what a challenge. I walk in five minutes and they're all around the table yelling about the B shift or whatever, you know? Right. But I do notice that you've done this well because you've taught and like

Nole (50:20.952)
Right.

Nole (50:37.835)
I would talk a lot less at work.

Kevin (50:45.524)
Everyone talks crap about the new guy or what he's not doing or how he's not doing it. And it's our job to teach him. He doesn't know this. I didn't know anything. I'm green as hell. So I'm like, he's doing the toilets wrong. Like, hey, buddy, this is how we do the toilets here. And this is this come with me, follow me, put some gloves on. This is how we're gonna do it. And we're gonna do this all together at 11 a.m. sharp. You know? And I think if you teach him the way

Nole (50:54.889)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Nole (51:09.337)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (51:12.802)
Or if you don't like that hose layer, the way he throws the ladder, then it's your job to teach him that way and not talk about it, but actually do something about it.

Nole (51:20.077)
Yeah, yeah. No, it's a good point.

Kevin (51:24.302)
I don't know. We're lucky we have some All Stars and some veterans, so it's not really issues. I'm literally the lamest dude on the team by far. The only thing I'm good at is cutting cars. Yeah. You need a guy to cut cars, cool. Everything else I know nothing about.

Nole (51:30.999)
Whatever, dude. I don't believe that. I know those guys you work with.

Kevin (51:48.013)
Hey, we have our sixth. We've done this for six years, Noel. Six years. No and I had an idea to do a stair climb in honor of the 343 firefighters and more civilians and cops that we can name that passed away on nine eleven. It was a pivotal moment for both Noel and I. It was our generations, Pearl Harbor,

And we had an idea to honor those Fonglin and we climb 110 floors on Stairmasters. And it's been one of the probably my favorite events of the year because all the families come together. We see many of the same families every year. And this year, it's Sunday 913, not 911, Sunday 9:13 after 911. And it's going to be at our own LA County Fire Museum. And I'm really excited about it because if you haven't been to the LA County Fire Museum,

It's a really cool spot. They actually have artifacts from 9-11, including a hydrant that was there. Multiple different things. and so I'm really excited about this. I want to shout out Chief Good Show, Mike Goodshow, who's been really supportive and a lot of other people. It's kind of cool having it at home, dude, in our backyard, because we've always done it in various locations in Orange County and Riverside County.

Nole (52:45.987)
Very cool.

Nole (53:03.246)
Yeah.

Kevin (53:09.366)
And this is kind of feels like home for the twenty fifth hour anniversary where I know there's already multiple rigs that are close by that are gonna stop by. You know what I mean? So it's really cool. So I really hope and encourage you guys can do that. I'll give a link for the it's all free, but I'll give a link to Noel so he can put it in the show notes. We we do ask you to register so we know how many people are coming and how much food and drinks to bring.

Nole (53:17.025)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is really cool.

Nole (53:33.133)
Yep. Yep. It's gonna be rad, dude. The museum is rad. It's the perfect, perfect spot for this event. I mean, you couldn't you couldn't ask for a better spot.

Kevin (53:38.604)
N No. And no, if somebody is worried about the fitness level of this thing, what would you say?

Nole (53:45.508)
man. Fantastic question. Most people do the stair climb slick, we'll call it, in just PT gear and and shoes, right? So that's an option. There's also the option to do less than a hundred and ten floors. There's there's nothing that says you have to hit a hundred and ten floors. That's an arbitrary number, you know, based on the amount of floors in the tower. But there's nothing that says that if you don't climb that many floors, you're not honoring the fallen.

Kevin (53:54.126)
P T.

Nole (54:15.233)
I mean, if you were eighty years old and you got in there and climbed five floors, that would be heroic and would do just as much to honor because it's about it's about the activity that you're doing. It's about the heart that you put into it. It's about what you're actually there physically doing. You don't even have to climb. A lot of guys bring their families and and a lot of guys, their whole family climbs, but some of them it's only mom and dad, or it's only dad, or it's only mom. It you know, it doesn't matter. There's definitely no pressure, it's not a competition.

Kevin (54:32.63)
You don't.

Nole (54:44.321)
It's definitely not the type of thing where we're posting times and seeing who got the fastest. Yes, there will probably be guys there who climb in full turnouts with BAs on their backs, but that's not that's not for everybody. It's not a fitness event. It's not a competition, like I already said. And just coming out and being there to support is rad. You don't even have to climb. We just want to see you guys and hang out with you and have a a moment of remembrance. It's very cool. It's a very positive event. Very

Kevin (55:05.091)
Yeah.

Nole (55:13.027)
patriotic and it's good memorial. But yeah, fitness level, don't worry about it. It's not something that you need to train for beforehand. we never do. We always we I mean I don't have access to a snare machine. So I you know not not a concern. Is it fun to be able to go and and climb 110 floors if you can physically do it? Yeah, but I mean if if 10 or 20 floors is is is your maximum then rad, do that.

Kevin (55:20.29)
No. Never.

Kevin (55:36.088)
We're paying the man. We're putting in some work.

Yeah. And we've had multiple people come out and do like ten floors and ring the bell. I if you are a fireman, what you want to know is like if you want and you want to climb in gear, just bring a fresh, clean pair of turnouts. I take all my stuff out of it and I wear turnouts in a helmet and we do have very old unoperable SCBAs that you can wear as a weight pack and you climb a hundred and ten floors. It takes about thirty minutes for most people on average. So you're doing thirty minutes of cardio.

Nole (55:44.301)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (55:53.613)
Yeah.

Nole (55:59.578)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (56:08.578)
And you can make this miserable and go at a level fifteen the whole time, or what I do is tend to go at a level five or six and honor the fallen and put in some work and just pay the man. But it's very cool because in most of the years, like the whole Lily family go together, the whole Welsh family go together, the whole Tebow family will go together. He's in turnouts and the wife and kids are in PT gear and everybody's cheering each other on. We do have a ceremony that starts at nine o'clock. Nine o'clock.

And so there'll be climbing before and after that. But you want to be there for that. And then so when you get off, there will be a lanyard that we have provided and it says a member of the FDNY that passed away on nine eleven. And you are remembering that as you're climbing. It's in front of you. And when you get off, you ring this big loud bell and you scream out his name. and it's a it's a very pointed, powerful day for me because we are remembering, we said we'd never forget, and I'm I'm so glad we get to do this every year.

Nole (57:08.035)
Yeah. Amen. Link is in the show notes. Go sign up.

Kevin (57:11.104)
Let's go. Well, thank you guys for listening to our ramblings. we we we love that you are listening. It's always very humbling to hear who does listen. if you do like what you hear, leave us a review, give us a thumbs up, subscribe to the show. It helps us out quite a bit, and we'll see you guys next time. This has been the Fire You Carry Podcast.

Nole (57:46.915)
You know, one of our our program guys, one of the guys on the team, Calen Plouf, he sent me sent me a screenshot a few days ago, and it's I think he was in Spotify, one of the music players, but he was on My Epic's kind of artist page, and their top song with the most plays is the song Hail, which if you're not aware, if you're new to the show

Kevin (57:52.007)
C P.

Kevin (58:01.646)
Mm.

Kevin (58:07.276)
What? That's our song.

Nole (58:10.455)
Or you haven't been paying attention, that's our song. That's the music that we use at the beginning and then a podcast. Now, of course, the actual version has words. Link is in the show notes. If you ever want to go listen to it, you just click and and listen. But he said, Every time I see this, I like to think that it's their top song because of all the fans of the Fire You Carry podcast that are listening to it. And I was like, Yeah, I would love it if that was true. And maybe it is. I don't know, but it's super rad. And, you know, we haven't said it in a while, but I will say big thank you to Face Down Records and

Kevin (58:25.75)
Yeah.

Kevin (58:32.259)
Could be.

Kevin (58:38.518)
Yeah, buddy.

Nole (58:40.225)
Mr. and Mrs. Dunn specifically for giving us permission all those years ago to use that song. It's been the best. I don't I don't know that I could ever change it. At this point, that is the Fire You Carry podcast. So

Kevin (58:50.516)
It is hail is our song. And I still airdrum to it every single time.

Nole (58:56.107)
I mean you have to.