251: Kevin & the 4x4x48

In this intensely personal and inspiring episode, Kevin dives deep into his recent experience completing David Goggins' legendary 4x4x48 challenge—running 4 miles every 4 hours for 48 hours. What started as a daunting personal pursuit, fueled by years of hesitation, transformed into a profound spiritual and mental breakthrough on the historic Naval Base Coronado in San Diego.

Joined by his "savage" crew, Kevin pushed past his physical limits (running 10 miles farther than he ever had before!) and battled severe sleep deprivation and digestive issues.

Hear Kevin's raw, honest moment of nearly quitting at the 20-mile mark, the Bible verse that flipped his mental switch, and how the presence of family and military inspiration changed the entire meaning of the challenge. This episode explores the critical roles of brotherhood, the danger of comfort, the power of the Misogi concept (one epic yearly challenge), and the life-changing lessons learned about faith, perseverance, and sacrifice.

Finally, Nole shares his personal challenge for the month of December—a daily commitment to cold exposure—and invites the listener to join him.

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Transcript

NOLE (00:13.752)
You are listening to the Fire You Carry podcast on today's episode. Kevin shares with us his adventure with David Goggins legendary challenge, the four by four by 48. If you do not know what that is, that's okay. We will explain it in the beginning of this episode. Essentially, Kevin just went and did something that was incredibly hard. He did it with a crew of savages who were also his brothers in arms.

And he got a lot of really cool life lessons out of this, had a really great experience. And so we talked through that. It's something that has been on Kevin's radar for a long time, something that has kind of been eating at him from the background, wondering if it was something that he could do and if he could complete it or not. And so just come along for the ride and let's find out how that went down.

KEVIN (01:29.49)
Drinking mud water. Have you heard of this mud water? Yeah, it's actually pretty I mean it tastes like the earth Right, but then I got this other thing this guy suggests. We have a pretty health conscious dude He's trying to get off. He doesn't do the caffeine and nicotine and things my hats off to him but I had a cup at the station and I did feel like it had a little nootropic benefit mean because you and I have both taken

Yeah, the mushroom stuff.

NOLE (01:55.744)
really?

KEVIN (01:59.168)
alpha brain. Do you still take in?

Alpha brain. Yeah. No, it's too expensive. But I did feel like I did feel like it helped a little bit.

It did give me a little kick, right? This one has all sort of healthy mushrooms, cordyceps, I don't know the science. But I do notice that I'm not as jittery or like anxious when I have this cup. So hats off to Mudwater, I'm trying it for a while.

Yeah.

NOLE (02:21.174)
I had a really serious conversation with Heather yesterday, really serious. And she was basically telling me that if it wasn't for me, she would just quit caffeine entirely because of the negative side effects of it. I'm like, you can't blame that on me. And she's like, well, you make coffee and you know, the way that we do it, like our whole routine in the morning is built around how coffee is made, prepared. And she's like, I know you're not going to quit. you know, I'm not going to make two pots of coffee and whatever.

Ritual,

KEVIN (02:48.152)
Like one thing at a time lady, I already quit nicotine.

Yeah, right, right. So, but I think, I think we're going down the road because I cut back a lot at work because I only make Aeropress. So one cup at a time, I don't drink the station coffee. So I back a lot at work. So drinking too much, but I cut back a lot. think I'm going to transition to that here at home as well, which would cut back a ton on my caffeine intake as well. I, I'm not going to say that I'm going down the road of completely quitting, but I do want to cut it back enough.

that I can once again experience the effects of caffeine, that it can have an impact on me. Because right now I can drink as much coffee as I want to never feel any different. I just love to drink it. You know what mean? So I want to cut back to like one or two cups a day, which would be insanely, insanely huge. And I'm not doing it right now, but I'm thinking about it.

I have made some progress and my hat is off to you because I have quit the afternoon coffee and that's dramatically helped me fall asleep. yeah. And so I can see the benefit but the ritual is a thing. You know I got my wife for Christmas last year on this high-end espresso machine.

The Nespresso? The Nespresso? No, no, no, it's an actual espresso. actual...

KEVIN (04:01.026)
like look like a barista holding a cup and you put fresh espresso in and makes these rad noises and you have even little tiny little espresso cups, know, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, it's really nice to like have a little espresso throughout because it's just like, you don't feel like you're drinking a whole cup and you take that and then you can just go conquer the world. But I think it's sometimes like I might have to go with your thing. I'm trying to do mud water.

Cool.

KEVIN (04:29.516)
And then if my life sucks, maybe do a little espresso.

KEVIN (04:36.098)
Cut off his lunch. There's nothing past lunch.

That's smart, dude. So there's this, there's this thing that's lived in our world. You have been called out many times. People have pestered me. You're one of them about the four by four by 48, just David Goggins running slash just mental toughness challenge. And it's always been something that intrigued me and that there was part of me that wanted to do, but also was afraid to do or even think about doing it. And you, my friend,

recently completed the four by 48 with a, with a few savages and you just got it. You got to tell me the story. You said you had some lessons learned, some, some revelations. So I definitely want to hear about that, but, what happened? How did this happen?

So we've talked about this for what two years we refer about this thing. I've read both of Goggins's books, right and Love him or hate him some of his things are very motivational and inspirational, right? And he's overcome personal demons if you guys don't know David Goggins There's a former Navy SEAL who had let himself go had a horrific childhood and fought his inner demons through basically ultra marathons running going through the Navy SEALs he was a ranger he was a

He's everything right now. There are things that I completely disagree with on Goggins and some of the things are some of the faith in the family aspects. But as a person who has overcome demons, he's very inspirational, you know, and he's done it. He there's probably nobody more consistent in grinding than him. He's known, it's been on every podcast and he's done every hard challenge you have. And if you don't know, like at 40 currently he still does.

KEVIN (06:21.87)
wildland firefighting up in Canada and he said of all the things he's done, even in the seals, like that's some of the hardest work he's ever done. respect. Yeah, dude. He's on a jump team. They can and with a bunch of, can you imagine a bunch of 19 and 20 year old kids with a dip in and David Goggins, some 45 year old sad.

I didn't know he did that.

KEVIN (06:46.446)
crew joins your crew. So he has this everyday man, ultra marathon thing where it says like not everybody has the time to commit. So the knock on long distance training is that it's time-based. So you, you are not going to complete an iron man or an ultra marathon without putting hours and hours and hours of training. It's just how it is. But he has this thing where he said you can run four miles every four hours.

for 48 hours and you and I, anybody can run four miles. We can do it right now. And then the fact is, is that can you do it again? And do you have the mental fortitude to do it every four hours? Now it's terrified me because no, I'm not a long distance runner. I've always struggled with it. I would much rather go you and me. like, I am your one rep max deadlift guy. Like that's my competition right now. But because it's haunted me and that sounds like

I can do four miles. Like I can do, I can run four miles. And that, that it kind of haunted me. I knew that someday I'd have to try to tackle this thing. Well, lo and behold, I started working at fire station 13 and I am surrounded by just stellar human beings. The main one is captain Josh Nessa, who we've talked about incessantly. He's come to the program. He's a program guy, former Marsau Marine. He's just a specimen of a human being.

And he said, yeah, let's do it. Kenobi was the catalyst. Kenobi said, I want to do this thing and who's coming with me. And of course it was one of those things that I'm like, okay, we've been talking about this sign up. And this is early 2025. He said, we're going to do it at the end of the year when the weather's cool. Well, Josh gets involved and he says, no, no, we're to do it. We're going to do it on the Navy seal base. And he's a decorated disabled.

Right.

KEVIN (08:44.462)
combat veteran and so is our own Mike Kenobi and they're the two captains at my station. How am going to say no to that? They're in, I'm in. There was at one point there was like 11 people and then when it came time where Josh is like, I booked the place. I need the money. It's four of us. You got captain Josh Nessa, decorated veteran, Michael Kenobi, sergeant in the army, decorated combat veteran. And then you have JP Hillsebeck who is just a complete and total stud.

Yeah, yeah, that sounds right.

KEVIN (09:14.478)
He's not married. He has no kids. He trains. He's a USAR guy and he's done professional high rock races. He's done 56 mile adventure races. is a, he's top 1 % fitness guys. He's just incredible. then there's me.

KEVIN (09:38.604)
Okay, but none of those things mean that I've ever done anything close to old. I've never done a marathon. I've never done anything over 10 miles. And so I knew it was going to be a war, but you have inspired me, Noel, because we say we do hard things and that I knew that this was going to be a war for them. It might've been, you know, a weekend, but for me, I knew it was going to be a mental war. And so I did it. And I did train. I did train, but because of I've had preexisting injuries, I've had neck surgery a few years ago.

And every time I try to start the impact of running bothered my neck. I think it changed my gait. So when I try to do traditional training of like, you marathon training forever said like, you do three to five miles every day. And then the long day on Saturday, you'd get five miles and then 10 miles and then 20. I tried to do that and I pulled my calf and everything I tried to do. It wasn't working. So the only thing I could do, and you've been watching my mind zone is ride.

the air dine bike for like an hour at a time every day. Yeah. And try to just build like a base cardio. We get to this place. It's the most inspirational thing. I couldn't stop thinking about you and some of these guys because you check into this space and I, you have this idea of what an army ranger is or what a Navy seal is. And you just talked about this at the fire program. They're a jacked child.

Yeah.

NOLE (11:04.43)
Yeah, they're babies.

Children, they're 19, 20 year old kids. All these kids in the military. We looked like these ancient grandpas that just had, and now Josh and JP and Mike, they're all big and strong and buff. It just was so funny to watch like, my gosh, I was thinking about you and what you did and what Josh did and what Mike did. You were 20 years old.

Yeah, at the oldest.

But it was crazy inspirational because was we're checking into this space. F to F 18 fighter jets flying over your head. You're on a military base, dude. The SEAL training program is right down the way. There's a destroyer right off. Like when we're looking out of our hotel, when we stayed at the Navy Lodge on Coronado, there's a destroyer right on the thing. And it's just like America. So we start, we check in at three o'clock.

Yeah, dude. Yeah.

KEVIN (11:58.954)
Nessa says, put your shoes on. We're starting our first run Wednesday night at 4 PM. I'm like, okay, here we go. But you know, in my head, as soon as we start, it's on. I can't, I'm not going to come back and like, if we start the first run, it's on. So first run, we have no idea where we're going. Right. We just use Strava. Wait a minute. We know.

planning and nobody met that

I was assuming that our veterans knew this base, but neither of were. And so we're like, we're going to head that way west for two miles and then figure out how to come. Well, I don't know if you've ever been to a base, but you can't really get in and out of a base. IDs it's like, so the four o'clock one, eight o'clock one is no problem because we can get off base and run all the way down the beach on this path towards Coronado.

Yeah, they weren't there.

NOLE (12:34.381)
Back. Yeah.

NOLE (12:40.31)
right is

KEVIN (12:52.374)
But after whatever it is, nine or 10 o'clock, the base is on lockdown. Now we're just doing like kind of loops throughout the base. It ended up actually perfect because we were running with headlamps in the middle of the night and you know, it's raining. Nobody bad at a night. There are also people running in the middle of the night at all times. There's signs that say watch out for joggers. It's somewhat normal. If we did this in a neighborhood, the police would have been called immediately.

can't yeah can't get back.

NOLE (13:09.207)
Yeah

NOLE (13:21.346)
These guys are going by again. I think they're casing the houses.

But for me, it was like super inspirational. had my goal is to go low and slow. I'm probably an eight, nine minute mile guy if I wanted to be. And we were going, we said, Hey, we're going to keep it low and at 12, 12 to 13 minute miles and just do that over time. when we go, the elites, Josh Ness and JP Hill, so back absolute complete studs, they just take off and they were doing eight minute miles, which is probably slow for them. And they just cruise. Yeah.

And Kenobi and I heading back and we had it. We had a, we had our strategy and we started doing low and slow miles. It's still taxing. I was still like, Hey, we just ran four miles. Right. But then the timeframe in between, will be honest with you. Josh was the one who got me out of my own head because I thought like, Hey, I have to go back. I have to stretch. I have to put my legs up. I have to get carbohydrates on board. have to feed so I can digest because we're going to do this again.

because it took us, let's say, 45, 50 minutes to do four miles.

So then you got basically three hours before you have to it again.

KEVIN (14:27.502)
We invited all the families, which was the coolest thing. The Kenobis came down from Idaho. The Nessas were there. The Welsh's and all their kids were there. And then JP brought his girlfriend. So when we got back, they were like, hey, you're back. Hey, we're hungry. Because the first run was at four. We ended at five, let's say. It's dinner time. I was like, well, I have to go to the room. You're on your own. And Josh was like, you checked me. I think he did. He's like, no, this isn't about you, bro. This is about us. This is about the families. Let's go get them some food.

Dinnertime.

KEVIN (14:56.13)
Let's hang out. Let's go throw the football on the beach. And it's like the exact opposite of what I

it right right you got to prep for the next run yeah because

I know that's easy for him, but I'm like, I know I'm in a war here, right? And so he was right though. I'm so glad he checked me because you know, we had to make it about the family. not just there watching us run every four hours. And so we made it, it became this really cool family thing where we're finding sand dollars on the beach and throwing the ball around and we're going to the little dinners and having great like camaraderie and family time and the kids are all playing. So this goes on. We go 4pm, 8pm, midnight.

Yeah.

KEVIN (15:34.51)
4 a.m.

Let's get real.

So I'm about 20 miles into this thing. My body is done. I'm done. I've hit, I've gone 10 miles farther than I've ever run. And I can tell that my body was like done. And it had this like, crossroads moment in my head where I'm looking at like, have, I have not, I don't have anything left. My whole body hurts. You're chafed. Your nipples are raw.

Yeah, yeah.

NOLE (15:53.43)
Yeah, yeah.

KEVIN (16:07.186)
Like it's raining, my feet are wet. And I can tell my legs were extremely tired. And that first night I looked at my Fitbit, I had 45 minutes of sleep and it says, you are over training. Please don't stop whatever you're doing. You know what I mean? And I had this moment where I literally by myself in a hotel room in the dark, just got on my knees and asked God, I'm like, God, do you want me to do this? And I said,

God, can I hear you? Can I see you? I want to honor you. I don't want this to be a selfish pursuit of like glory. I want, how do I honor you through this thing? And it just immediately popped into my head. Like God makes all things, you know, he does all things, everything's for a reason. And then it said, you know, Philippians four, four 13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthened me. Took a pen, I wrote it on my hand and I just started repeating this over and over and over.

Yes.

KEVIN (17:04.013)
And then I felt like immediately I was like, I put on Tithami and I got these new earphones because you, the wife and kids are in the room, right? And I'm trying to be like a present loving dad and like, let's go find sand dollars. in my earphones, I'm having these, I'm broken. I'm, I have, I need help. I asked God for help. And then I put on Tithami, which if you have a song,

yeah.

NOLE (17:30.7)
The f*** is...

put on to me by sleeping giant. And then it was just like, okay, God's got this. I'm just going to put my shoes on, put one foot in front of the other, and then I'm going to honor him through this. it changed from like a personal pursuit to then I want to honor God and have like this physical mental sac.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And from then on, it just switched. I enjoyed it. I knew it was going to rain. I knew I was going to hurt. knew I was going to, my feet were going to be trashed. I like expected everything to go terrible. I knew I couldn't eat. And then, but I was like, let's go bring it on baby. You know what I mean? And, and I just became like, I'm, just had this thing. I'm not going to complain. I'm not going to think about it. I'm, I'm standing next to

Josh and Mike and JP who I'm not going to let down and they're going to complete this. I know how savage they are and I'm not going to be the guy that doesn't do it. I've got God behind my back and I got tithing me in my ears. Let's go. And it just switched. There was a flip that switched and from then on we just grinded the miles. And yes, I couldn't eat anything. My GI stomach, my stomach was jacked up. We were barely able to like drink element. You know what I mean? And then we had again a second night of no sleep.

NOLE (18:40.46)
Yeah.

Yeah

KEVIN (18:48.215)
and, you're looking at it none of this makes sense, but then the kids during the day would ride their bikes next to us and you want, and more F 18s are flying overhead and you see all these military guys running and getting prepped for buds or doing whatever. And it was just so inspirational and I felt so American and I felt so like. Grateful. And I was like, I was overwhelmed to think about what I was doing at 20 years old.

It was a disaster. And I thought what you were doing at 20 years old was heroic and what Josh and Mike were doing and what all these kids are doing. It just made me so grateful that people like you served for people like me. And we're enjoying our family day on Coronado Island in the most beautiful area of Southern California. And yet we're also having this private internal mental spiritual war.

Yeah, yeah, dude. That's inspiring. So did you have a moment that night then where you were thinking about calling it quits? I'm going to have to

100 % yeah 100 % and I had given myself these outs so the kids brought their bicycles and scooters to go around on the daytime run so like yeah 8 o'clock the noon and the 4 p.m. They were gonna ride next to us and I'd give myself these outs I'm like well I have my BMX bike my body's broken. I'll just ride next to him

I'll still be with them, but I won't run

KEVIN (20:15.598)
And I'm like, if that doesn't work and I'm really broken, I don't owe anybody anything. We're not right. We are. I don't need to get injured, you know, but the crazy thing is I wasn't, it is that whole hurt versus injured. Everything hurt, but I wasn't injured. There was nothing injured, but I was like, I don't need to do this. I'm going to, I definitely had that quit thing come in and I was like, I'll either ride a bike. If the bike doesn't work, nah, they won't judge me. They know I'm old. They know I have neck surgery. They know.

Right.

NOLE (20:37.24)
Yeah.

KEVIN (20:45.262)
you know, all these things. And I was just going down the road of quit until I got on my knees. And when I started praying and I started thinking about it and I started asking God for direction, tithing me comes on that completely was, it was a non option anymore. Yeah. It was just, took that thought, that weakness, and I just threw it in the trash and said, I put the bikes in Harmony's car and locked the car. I said, there's no way out. I'm going to finish.

Hmm.

KEVIN (21:14.796)
And you thought I thought about you a lot because you were, you tell guys all the time and your time and, and selection and rip. It's like, you cannot quit. If they can force you to quit, but it's you cannot quit. I'm paraphrasing your thing. I don't know. How do you better say that?

Yeah, you just go into it with a mentality of no matter what happens, I'm not going to quit. If an injury forces me out or if I fail an event and I can't pass, then that's, that's different, but I won't physically raise my hand. I won't ring the bell. You just take it off the table, which never means that you don't struggle with it, right? Cause in all of those scenarios like you, I wanted to quit and I had to wrestle with it in my brain, but that little bit of extra shift in your mindset and the way you're looking at it.

it can carry you through, especially when you combine that with obviously going to the knee, going to your knees, taking the Lord, grabbing onto that verse, listening to Tithami. Like God does carry you through that stuff. And part of the way he does that, I believe is by your mental shift that you make when you go, you know what? No, he's got this. I can do it. It's going to be hard. It's going to be terrible, but I'm, I'm now moving past that. I've, I've said, I want to quit. I've made all these excuses, but I've now chosen right. That next run you've, you've made the choice now.

And I know it didn't get easier after that. Not really, but it did in a different way, right? Mentally. Cause you're just like everything.

But I mean, what I was learning is that I can't do this alone. I can't do hard things alone. And it doesn't have to be the four by four by 48. It could be something in your personal life or challenges with the wife or the kids or finances or whatever. It was just one of those as clear as day, like whatever I do, I cannot do alone. And I need help from above and I need help with friends here. And I thought with both of those things, I was able to do something that I...

KEVIN (23:07.988)
on paper, I was not supposed to do. was not able, I didn't have the training. I'm a little older. I'm a little broken. it did. I did not have them. I was not prepared to do 48 miles. And, but when I asked and I, I believe like God was with us, he was wanting us to suffer through, learn, to grow and having probably the three strongest dudes there without that. And those guys, there's no way I would have done that. There's absolutely no way I would have done that.

by myself or without them or in that setting on that base getting inspired by the active duty Navy guys, you know?

Right. Yeah, that's huge. Cause yeah, we're left to our own devices. We're, we are weak, right? All of us are. And there are certain individuals, people like Goggins and others. I mean, even the Josh Ness's of the world who can absolutely go do stuff like that solo. That's part of who they are. But most of us and for most of life, even if you are that type of person, it's so much better when you have your brothers beside you and

you're gaining and learning through that experience, you're growing, but you're also providing this really interesting example for your family, right? For the other families that are there. And you know, will your daughters ever go run a four by 40? Maybe they will, but even if they don't, that's not really the main point. It's that this was really hard for my dad, but he did it with his, with his buddies. He did it with his brothers around him and with us around him. And together it was this really cool experience.

They saw you suffer and struggle for sure, but they saw you persevere. And that lesson is, I mean, that's huge. And it's huge for us, right? Well, I shouldn't say us, cause I didn't do this, but it's good for you. But dude, the lesson for your girls, I mean, that's just.

KEVIN (24:59.302)
It happened. I saw it in real time, doll. You're so right because Allie, she's 12 years old. She's in seventh grade and she said, hey dad, can I run with you? I said, absolutely. And she's taken a couple of runs with me and she's gone no more than a mile and a half or two miles. said, she's tired. she's, and this one I go, hey, yes, but I can, I can tell you that I cannot be with you. have a pace and a plan. And Josh and them have a pace and a plan. We're on a naval base.

walks back. Yeah.

KEVIN (25:27.596)
And there could be, if you don't follow either my speed or their speed, you're by yourself. And so I gave her that. then of course, moms do what moms do. They super worried. She doesn't have a phone. She doesn't have a mic. She's smart enough to know it's a straight line, two miles out and two miles back. And so I said, but it's up to you to know that we don't have water. We don't have anything. You're on your own and you don't have a phone. And so she said, I want to do it. So she grabs her shoes. do a little stretch.

And of course the elites take off. Josh, he stayed with them the entire time. No, she dusted me. She absolutely does. I'm doing my 12, 13 minute miles. I see her at the turnaround. She's flushed red and I'm like, let's go, baby. You got it. Let's go keep it up. Now she was probably a hundred yards behind them, but had them visually in sight. We beat her by a quarter mile.

Yeah, they got a job.

NOLE (26:21.182)
Yeah, yeah.

But she completed four miles, dude, completely out of her comfort zone, never ran that far and was doing it at about a nine minute mile.

That is so good. man.

We celebrated with her like she won the Super Bowl.

Of course. You know what mean? that's so good.

KEVIN (26:41.134)
But I wanted to say this last thing. So I can imagine there had been times in your life, and I know there have been times in my life where you had to really dig into that warrior mindset. I can imagine if you went your first time into basic or into RIP, it's just like that all focused, we're going to go, we're going to get after it, we're going to fight through this. You know what I mean?

For me, was like, when I wanted to get on a college soccer team and I wanted to walk on and I try out, I was just like that warrior inside. When I was training with my buddy Joe, training up for a boxing fight, we were in a team. So our team was helping him build up and we were in like a camp. So the camp was a two to three month camp to build him up for this fight. You were in a, you were this warrior thing where you just eat, sleep, train, eat, sleep, train. And then I can think a little bit, a little bit about when we were getting in the fire department.

It was like my whole life is on the line. I have to pass this thing. I will not quit. I'm going to fight every day and work my ass off. And it was that warrior thing. And since then, that was like 14, 15 years ago, we have been very comfortable. I'm in a house that I've, a bigger house than I've ever been in my entire life. Our bills are paid, our things are happening. And if I'm honest, three years ago, this neck surgery had been a catalyst. It's changed.

Yeah.

KEVIN (28:06.762)
Everything I'm not who I was physically than I was three years ago. And I've had all these things. It's been very depressive. I can't do CrossFit. I can't do Highland games. I can't do max effort back squats in here. I can't can't can't can't can't going into this thing. Kill that. I definitely tapped into that inner warrior thing that I felt in soccer that you felt in ripped that that I've and it was like

Mm-hmm. It killed.

KEVIN (28:34.164)
It was awakening. Like I'm not dead. I'm not letting the old man in yet. The warrior is still there. And it became that thing. Like I don't need to do this all the time, but, comfort is not always the best thing. I'm so glad this thing beat me down and it was raining and it was windy and it was no sleep. It was miserable because I've been comfortable too long, dude. I've been comfortable way too long.

NOLE (29:02.574)
Dude. man. This making me want to go do it. You too. I was so glad. I mean, the reality of that whole scenario is that everyone knew that I wouldn't go do it. Right. It's just the way that my life is structured and family and stuff. Like it just wasn't even going to be an option. And then also physically I've said forever. I'm not a runner.

I'm not a long distance runner. That's just not something I'll go do. I'll do other hard things, right? But I'm not doing anything like that. I haven't, I mean, I'm with you. I haven't had a challenge like that in, don't even know how long, but hearing you describe it and hearing you talk about it is kind of like driving me crazy because I feel it. I feel that need. Like I need that again, because I have been comfortable. mean, we do fitness, we work out, you know, we do ice baths. It's not the same.

I'm comfortable

Right. And it's so, it's not really rising to that level where I might quit this right now. I'm making, I'm going to come up with some reasons why I can quit this and why it'll be okay. Then that's where the rubber meets the road.

Well, I've talked about this at length, but I'm a huge fan of the Big S calendar and part of the guy, Jesse Eitzer. He's a very inspirational entrepreneur and an ultra runner, but he has this thing, a part of being intentional about your year and planning your year so that you put your priorities in place and then everything else falls in line. So for what he suggests, he suggests how you set up your calendar. You look in the month of December and we already have ours on the table.

KEVIN (30:45.514)
is that I'm planning things based on my priorities for faith, family, fitness, my career, and then being of service. So I'm putting things in there like faith things like, Hey, we might go to Hume Lake for the couples retreat that you guys went to. I'm putting things in the family, like what they want to do. They want to take a little trip here, take a little trip there. They want to do, you know, junior lifeguards. We want to take a family trip in the summer. I'm putting those in. Fitness stuff this year was

And the last thing you put, you fill in the calendar and then work and then everything else. So prioritize what's most important to you. But this last 2025, at the end of this year, he also says that the Japanese concept of the misogi and the misogi is, you know, it's, mean, how do you, how do we, I do a terrible job of explaining this, but what do you, we've heard this, this idea before.

Yeah, I can't really remember the exact details, but it's basically that one. It's like a one big event. It's a mountain top experience. It's something that's super challenging, something that's way out of the ordinary. Maybe it is climbing a mountain. Maybe it is the four by four by 48. It'd be those type of things. I feel like if I remember correctly.

While we're talking, it's a, you do the notion of a misogi is that you do something hard one time a year that has an impact on the other 364 days of the year. You put one thing on the calendar that scares you that you never thought you can do and you go out and do it. And this was it. This scared the hell out of me because I'm not a runner and I put it on the calendar. And when you look back at it,

That's it.

KEVIN (32:29.742)
I could absolutely say like 2025 is the year that we did the four by 48. And I have this breakthrough. And so I really liked it for that. Like, um, I did nothing like this last year. And some of the misogies could be like, Hey, 2021, we started the fire up program. It's a significant change in our lives. Right. Or you started a podcast or maybe a business or you became a fireman or whatever it may be. That could be the misogy as well. Right.

Yeah.

NOLE (32:46.06)
Mm-hmm.

KEVIN (32:57.56)
But I really, really, really enjoyed this concept that that 48 was on this giant calendar. I walked past it every day in the garage. I looked at it. It scared the hell out of me. It had a 50 % chance of me quitting. And yet with the only, with the only the help of Josh Nessa, JP and Mike Kenobi, was I able to complete something that I couldn't do by myself. And I loved, I absolutely loved it. It was miserable and I was in heaven. You know what mean?

Mmm.

KEVIN (33:27.182)
And so I was like that concept of Mussobee, I will adopt this going forward. If there's anything that this came out of is that I should do hard things. You can do things that are out of your comfort zone and it's honor God through it, right? And seek him, seek his help. And yes, I would prepare hopefully better for something like this next. But it was just, it was amazing. And I'm absolutely going to be something that I would adopt.

Thanks.

KEVIN (33:55.054)
You started all of this out. You would challenge me to saying, hey, we're going to do 400 meters of lunges every day. Burpees a day. And those are all great. And I think that could be something too. But I'm looking at you as my brother, podcast partner, one of my best friends. I say, hey, 2026, we're going to put something together as a Masogian. I don't know what it is yet. We have to start thinking about it, praying about it.

That was

KEVIN (34:23.544)
But you and I, want to have, cause I felt so close to those guys and I so much respect when you grind, you know, you go through a war. I feel so close to Mike and JP and Josh and I have the utmost respect for their operation. Josh, JP, they never complained once they had that warrior mindset. They just got up and did the work and I knew they all hurt. knew their wives were saying it. Everybody's hurting and they just got up.

gave each other high fives, let's go get it. I have so much re I have way, I, I put those dudes on a pedestal already, but I have way more respect now. but anyways, I want that with you and we've done things like competing, highline games, but I don't know what it is, dude. Maybe it's hiking a mountain and going and sitting some ice somewhere, but I don't know.

yeah, yeah.

NOLE (35:15.554)
Yeah, we got to figure it out. I'm in.

November 2026 or grind it pro

We gotta figure it out. We gotta figure it out soon. So it can live on the calendar.

It might seem ridiculous to anyone that had an experience, how do you explain those? How do you explain your experience emotionally or spiritually and rip to somebody who hasn't done it? And it's the same way. If I can't explain to you what it feels like to be a dad to people that are not parents, right? They're like, oh, we're dog parents. It's not the same. And I feel like for me and my current state at 46 with nagging injuries and not prepared this four by four by 48 for a runner type might've been just an easy weekend. But for me, it was like, it was a Mussogee.

the same thing.

NOLE (35:57.518)
I think the thing about the four by four by 48 that makes it different, even for runner types, is that you have to get up at midnight. You have to get up at four o'clock in the morning and you have to do that consistently for right for two days. the sleep deprivation. Yeah. That aspect of it makes it hard, I think for anybody. But of course, this is someone talking who's not done it, but that's what, that's what I would say. And I think that, I think the thing that's kind of intangible about that kind of

challenge is it's the brotherhood aspect, right? It's who you're it next to. But then it's also that mindset shift that if you're going to make it through has to happen where it goes from man, this sucks to man, this sucks. And this is exactly where I want to be right now. And I kind of love it. And that's a weird intangible thing because you can say that and it sounds, it doesn't make sense. And it really isn't that because it doesn't ever stop being hard. But when you make, when you make that shift,

you really do get to a place where you feel like, yeah, I'm glad it's raining right now. I'm glad my shoes are wet. Like bring it on. I can do this. I can, I will do this. I will complete this and you can throw whatever you want at me. It can be dark. I can, I can be on 45 minutes of sleep. It can rain. I can have no food. You know, I do all of it and it makes it better. And the

The thing that lives in the background of all of that and the reason why it's so rad when you finish something like what you just did is the knowledge that if you had quit, you would be okay. Right? Your friends, they would have jammed you up a little bit, but it would have gone away. It would have been fine. However, it wouldn't have gone away for you. It would have lived in your brain and you would have thought about it for the rest of your life. And that seems kind of silly. Like, well, it's just a running challenge, but no, it's way more than that. And you always would have wondered

What if, what if I hadn't quit? And so going past that, finishing it, you now never have to deal with that. And there are times in life when I've quit things and I have those regrets. And I'm sure if you're listening to podcast, you do too. So, you know, that's not an excuse to just be like, well, I failed. I'm just going to, you know, whatever I'm going to shut it down, pull the maxi brake and just be lame. Of course not. But that's part of it too, is just the knowledge that I thought about this. could have, I could have called it.

NOLE (38:19.874)
I would have been okay, but also I wouldn't have been okay. I would have carried that regret forever. And that's another thing to think about when you're in the middle of some challenge, whatever it is, whether it's physical or something to do with your marriage or your job or whatever. Let yourself think about that for a second. Think about, okay, if I do make this call right now, what does that mean a week? Once my body's healed up and it's not raining anymore, what does that mean a month from now? How am going to think about it then? Will I be okay with it? And you know, the answer is going to be no. And so that means you got to press on.

Man, so true, no. And I'll tell you one of the more impactful things at the very end, you know, it's very anti-climatic. We finished this thing and it's not, it wasn't a sanctioned race. Nobody cared that we were out there running and we were with our families. It was very anti-climatic. But our very own Captain Michael Kenobi, who is a very proud veteran of the army, had made, had made his medals preemptively.

Yeah.

KEVIN (39:16.43)
And if we finished, he did a little ceremony at the end in front of our families, in front of our wives, in front of our kids. And it's a medal. And he had some verbiage on the back and with a Bible verse on the back. it means it probably cost $5, right? Or maybe more. It actually had some weight to it. He probably spent some money on it.

$10. Probably more than that. I don't know.

But it was a very cool moment where you put the medal on your thing. We know we went through something extremely hard and it was an acknowledgement of like, we did this together. You know what mean? And it was a very cool thing that he did. And it absolutely reminded me of the program and your talk about getting a Tan Beret when you graduate and you're a Ranger. It's that Tan Beret, I mean, you tell it. I mean, it might not mean anything. It looks like a silly hat, but it means something to you.

Yeah, dude, I'll switch it because I have it right here. Although I'm never going to post this video, but the sword from Mighty Oaks, right? The root is from Mighty Oaks. I'm never going to do anything with it except for have it on my wall in my in my space. But every time I look at it, I remember, I went and did that. And then not only do I remember I went and did that, but I remember the impact that it had on my life, which was huge for Mighty Oaks, right? Huge for the tambourine for you right now where you're at and moving forward, that metal.

represents a huge triumph and some amazing experiences with your family and with your brothers. So that's what's cool about stuff like that. It's not the medal itself, it's the reminder because the reality of me going to Mighty Oaks or even me becoming a ranger or you becoming an LA County fireman and being a paramedic is we don't think about that stuff every day. You know, life happens and stuff gets in the way and...

NOLE (41:06.774)
I could go months and months and months without ever thinking about mighty oaks. But then when I see that thing on the wall, I go back there and then I can have a chance to reflect. were the lessons that I learned? What did happen there? And I can remember that stuff, at least for the way my brain works. That's why that metal that Mike probably spent a hundred dollars on or whatever, but yeah, I mean, for custom made them. So I'm sure they were expensive, but, the value there is the reminder and it's, it's an opportunity for you to hang it somewhere cool.

They're actually pretty fancy. It's not $5.

NOLE (41:36.916)
And when you see it, then you get that moment of reflection because life moves quick and it's easy to get focused on, you know, this week is Thanksgiving. I gotta go do this. I gotta go do that. Right. All that stuff. And to have a moment to reflect and go, well, what was that? And then revisit it in your brain and go, yeah, that's right. I'm a warrior. I don't quit. and also by the way, my daughters are warriors and savages and I need to continue to lean in like that kind of stuff. think that's the value in those things. And

You know, who doesn't like a good metal, dude? We all want to be champions.

And the last like general theme is that we know this and it's been a core tenet of my life that I've learned as We didn't have maybe the greatest examples of what happened of how to be a man or how to do the right thing and then I knew really early on that I need to surround myself with better people than myself and that's been a core tenet of my life I think one of the greatest things about having friendships with you and the guys in the fire up program is there to me top-notch in some

part of my life, right? And I can look up to them and emulate them and try to be a better man. And doing this hard thing in hard times, expose character weaknesses in me where I wanted to, the families are there and normally in a normal setting, I'm all family guy all the time, whatever you want and expose selfishness. It exposed like I do. We had a buddy, Mark Casey show up to support us.

And go run and I was like, Hey Mark, thanks for coming out. He did a run with us, which was awesome. He did one of the legs and I was like, all right, see you later. I got to go put ice on my legs and go bubble. And Josh looked at me like with disdain and was like, what are you talking about? You invited him out here and you're going to go say later, like we're going to lunch. We're going to hang out. We're going to. And it, and he's right. It exposed that's character flaw in me of selfishness that I had to, he, had to.

NOLE (43:29.422)
Yeah

KEVIN (43:38.326)
And I'm so glad that Josh did that because he exposed that and said, I said, what are you? yes, of course. Let's go hang out. And so, but being around Josh, JP and Mike forced me out of my own character flaws and watch and watching them not complain, put their shoes on, go grind was opposite of what I wanted to do. Hang out with the families, hang out, do all the right things. Right. And so it's just the importance of being surrounding yourself with people that are better than you.

in all aspects of your life or one aspect of your life. It's just critical to me. And that's why I think it's so important. I'm so glad we have our core crew, our inner circle, and we call each other out. You call me out. We have people like that that are so close as friends that we can call each other out. And I'm not but her, but we can be better because I'm around you. I'm around Josh Nessa. I'm around JP. I'm around Mike Kenobi. That stuff is inspiring me and it says that

that is going to, that has to be from here to eternity has to be part of my operation.

That reminds me of something that you talk about pretty frequently, the idea of seasons. And I think being in the space that we're in, like we often get kind of paralyzed by this idea that there's a certain way that we have to do things, right? My morning routine has to be prayer and breathing and ice bath. And then if I'm going to go do a run like that, I got to put my legs up and I got to ice them, right? All that stuff, you can get paralyzed by that. There are times and places where Captain Nessa's way of saying no.

you're not going to go do that because we got to hang out with the family and we got to go to lunch with this guy and we got to do these other things. That's not the quote unquote right way to do it right. There is an established like protocol. Like you should ice your legs and put them up on the wall and you should eat a certain thing and you shouldn't, you know, you should try to nap, but then you, you're, you're neglecting all the things that are actually important. And so the realization that at certain times in your life, all the things that are good and that are right to do that, you know, the protocol, the way the program,

NOLE (45:41.144)
Sometimes those go out the window and you just have to do the thing. Right. That's the secret truth is that if you've got the right mentality and the right people around you, you can, and you don't have to do, well, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't get enough sleep or I didn't get enough time in the word or ice or breathing. It's not perfect, right? Everything doesn't matter. Yeah. Right. Right. And you know, what happens when you hit a structure fire and you've got a plan with your crew for the structure fire or when you're, know,

when you're in combat or you're a law enforcement guy and you raid a house, what happens is the plan, like almost immediately. It all goes out the window. And so you just have to figure it out and nothing's ever perfect. So that's, that's the real, that's part of the lesson there too. You know, even for me, cause I look at, I look at the challenge of the four by 44, the thing, the thing you just did. And, and I, you know, I overanalyze it. like, well, you know, I'm not a long distance runner and I've got this knee issue, you know, there's all these excuses and reasons, but

Out the window.

NOLE (46:36.942)
But deep down in my heart, I know that if, I had been there with you guys, I have to believe that I would have completed it and it wouldn't have been ideal and I wouldn't have been perfect. And I would have been back with you and Mike running the running the more reasonable pace for sure. But I could have done it, but even prior to ever considering it, I've already written myself out of the ability to do it because I'm just not that guy. That's not for me, blah, blah, blah. All the excuses and all the reasons. now total, you know, transparency I'm

I'm now in the place where, as you were sending me pictures and reporting, and I had a short text message with, with captain Nessa and he's like, you should be here. I'm like, should be there, but I'm not. And so I have that regret and what can you do with that? Right? You can't do anything with it, but what I can do with it is go, okay. All right. I missed that opportunity.

He kept saying, where's Noel?

NOLE (47:36.16)
So when the next opportunity comes along, I better not miss it because I wish I had been there, right? It sounds amazing. sounds awful. And I love things that are amazing and awful.

I'm challenging you to not miss the opportunity, actually to create the opportunity for us in 2026. make your misogi and now we're attached to your thing. And I'm going to like, oh no, this is not good.

I've been trying desperately since you started talking about that to not sit here and the wheels are already turning. I already have ideas.

But I was just going back to the, you know, we plan God laughs thing basically, right? So I went to the Costco beforehand and my wife was so mad because I spent $400 at Costco. But all of this was for the 4x48. So I bought like pre-made chicken, tri-tip, I had rice bowls, I had like this really special like juice.

normal Costco run.

KEVIN (48:31.63)
You know what mean? Cause I was like, I had this whole plan on meal plan. Like, okay, I'm going to eat immediately afterwards. I'm going to get this many calories because we're going to be burning this many calories. This many carbohydrates per hour. $400 worth of food. Had it all organized and all this stuff laid out in these coolers. Absolutely out the window. The only thing that my stomach could possibly eat was peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on white.

PB and J's.

Dude, and I'm talking about, had her go get that white artisanal bread that's like a mar- it's like basically a marshmallow. Yeah. Do know what I'm talking about? That really soft, it gets like artisanal white bread. You got peanut butter and I put probably about an inch of jelly inside of it. And that's the only thing I could eat with that and an element with some water.

Yeah, I know.

NOLE (49:24.216)
That's early Rich Froning, dude. That's early CrossFit Jesus. Remember when they had those videos of him just eating peanut butter and jelly out of a steel bowl in the Yes, dude!

Totally. never thought of it, but yes, but I'm like, I'm like eating in harmony. My wife, bless her heart. She's like, spent $400. You have all this stuff. Why aren't you eating it? I'm in a fight for my life. Get me more peanut butter. I need more of that marshmallow bread.

Right, and now you're eating PB's and J's.

NOLE (49:47.298)
Peebles and Jable

That's funny, dude. I love it, man. I'm proud of you guys. Proud of you. That's super good. I love it.

I think you a lot and more than anything, think the setting that Josh got us on, Josh Nessa got us on this base made us go to this thing. It's absolutely the coolest thing I could experience. just to get just a glimpse into the world that you guys had and have sacrificed for us was just so humbling and inspiring. And to know like, I know Josh's backstory, your backstory, Mike's backstory. And to know that I look at the...

That's huge

KEVIN (50:23.886)
the literally the 19, 20 year old kids on this space. And we're not in a war right now, kind of, but to know that you guys were actually in it at the time, at this age, looking like this kid, you having kids and a wife. And it was just, it was mind blowing to me because I had zero responsibility. And in fact, it was a terrorist on the streets at the same age. was just like, well, now I can, now I can do, I'm in a different, mean, completely different life now. And I just felt so grateful for the friends, the family.

you know, our veterans, America, the sacrifices you guys have made for us. so that my little family could get sand dollars on this amazing beach with just all the freedom we want. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's beautiful. That video you sent me with the jet flying overhead as you guys are running and it's like 300 feet off the deck. I got chills just watching that video. I can't imagine being there. Like that. I love that kind of stuff.

Definitely, dude, you have easily thrown a rock at it and mashed it. was mad. It was wild. We're like, we're literally on the flight plan for these fighter jets.

So cool. Raw American power. Last thing I will say, we talked about this quite a bit leading up to it, right? I knew it was coming. You and I were talking about it and I'll just tell you this. I knew that going into it, you were concerned. You were apprehensive about it, whatever. I'm not going to use the word afraid because I don't think you were afraid of it, but, it was a big deal looming in the distance. I knew that you would complete it. had no doubt. I'm dead serious because I know your character. know who you are.

NOLE (51:57.664)
as a man. And then I also, of course, know Mike. know Captain Nessa. I love how I say Mike and then I say Captain Nessa. I'm sorry. mean, and the great thing is that I know that Mike isn't ever going to jam me up because he doesn't listen to the podcast. So he'll never know. But Captain Nessa, he gets the respect of the captain and Mike, you know, I love you Captain Kenobi, but you'll never hear this. So.

They closed the mic.

KEVIN (52:23.246)
That's so funny. Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble about it. if there's anything else that comes out of it is like, yes, you should have been there or should have been there, but, but no, maybe it's just enough motivation for you. You've put me through some of the worst workout things ever and we've grown because of it. I don't know if whatever it is, I thought that was a very cool thing to incorporate the families and having them run around and not be separate. And exactly like you said, it inspired them.

My daughters want to do track now. want to run. There's benefits. So we have to figure out something like that for November of 2026. And you have a few months. The clock is starting. I'm calling you to create this misogi.

Yeah, that's cool.

NOLE (53:08.418)
Let's go.

This has been the fire you carry podcast.

NOLE (53:26.734)
Reflecting on the fact that I've been too comfortable. I'm coming out of a season where I have allowed the vicissitudes of life to overtake me and I have been anxious and stressed and just not handling things super well. And of course, as always upon reflection, I realized that that means I haven't been in the word. I haven't been in prayer. I haven't been doing breathing exercises.

I have completely stopped doing cold exposure. All these things that I know help me with that stuff. Even workouts this month. I'm at risk of not completing my MEPs goal, which is a my zone heart rate monitor thing. You've probably heard us talk about if I miss this month, which right now I haven't made the goal as of this recording, it will be the first time in four years that I have not made the monthly goal. So that just gives you an idea of.

kind of how things have been going for Noel. So this is not an official podcast challenge because I haven't spoken to Kevin about this and you know, he's the other half of the podcast. So I can't officially issue a challenge. I don't feel right about that. But what I am going to do is I'm going to let you guys know a personal challenge that I'm going to take on for the month of December. And I'm going to invite you cordially to join me in that if you so choose. So throwing caution to the wind.

This is going to be another long, cold December. This is something that we've done an iteration of before. I need more cold water in my life. I need more being cold. It's incredibly good for my brain. There are reasons why you shouldn't do this every day for a long period of time, whatever. I don't care about that. I'm going to do cold exposure.

every day for the month of December. For me, what that's going to mean is I'm going to get into an ice bath every day. Now, again, the experts out there will tell you that you should not do this every day, that it overtaxes your system. I'm going to do it. I've done it before. I love the fact that you get really acclimatized to the cold. I love the fat burning properties that it brings. And I just love the mental refresh.

NOLE (55:43.714)
That it gives me and most of all, I love doing something really hard during a month where normally I would just be inclined to shut it down. So for me, what this means is I'm going to take an ice bath every day. have one here at work and I have one at home so I can do this easily. Well, easily may not be the right word. The temperature of my water is 37 degrees and I will be getting in for a minimum of two minutes. I probably will not go over that because that's plenty for me.

But I will do it once per day, every day for the month of December. You can do that however you want. If you want to join me, any kind of cold exposure, I would count. Even if it's a cold shower, I would just say that you pick a time duration and you stick with that. That's what I would encourage you to do. And if I miss any days, which shouldn't happen, but if I happen to miss any days, then I will owe a

hundred burpees in one go. I can't break them up throughout the day. I've got to start them and finish them in the same session. Quote unquote. So that's what I'm to be doing for the month of December. Everyone listening to this right now, you all hate that. I do too, but I kind of need to reach back down into my guts. I need to find some more of that intestinal fortitude. I'm going to be doing a lot of other things in concert with this, but this is the one that

is easily tracked and is going to be the most physically difficult. So I'm going to keep it there. I'm going to keep it simple. That's what I'm going to do for the month of December. I encourage you to join me, but again, not an official podcast challenge, just a semi official cordial invitation. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.

NOLE (57:41.518)
you