244: The 4 Phases of Fatherhood

In this solo episode, Kevin takes the helm while Nole is away and dives deep into a powerful framework for fatherhood from Jim Ramos of Men in the Arena. Whether you're a new dad or a seasoned grandfather, this episode provides a gut-check on where you are and where you're headed. Kevin breaks down the four distinct phases—Father Fidelis, Father Figure, Father Friend, and Father Forever—and connects them to the unique challenges faced by first responders. This is a must-listen for any man looking to be more intentional in his role as a father and build a lasting legacy.

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Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:14.328)
You are listening to the fire. You carry podcast in today's episode. Kevin does me a solid. We had a plan to record together and I had to cancel. So Kevin went ahead and recorded a solo episode for you. He is pulling from the well that is Jim Ramos, which he has done once before in the past. And as per usual, Jim really delivers some great fatherhood wisdom.

This is good for you regardless of what phase of life you're in because it hits all the different points of fatherhood. And personally, I really love this perspective. So thank you for listening. Enjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:13.934)
Welcome back to the fire carry podcast. We are doing a quick episode. Noel and I have both been working way more than we'd like to. And so I'm just going to do it. A quick episode to you guys based off an email that I saw from Jim Ramos who runs the men in arena. He's an author and also has a podcast. one of the greatest things that he has is it seems like a weekly email that I get and they're always got

a ton of information inside these things. And so I wanted to go over this for a quick episode. He talks about the four phases of fatherhood. So in phase one, this is from Jim Ramos, word for word in his email, phase one is father Fidelis from birth to 11. And it sums up this entire phase of fatherhood. Let's just show up. You have to be there. Show up.

Fidelis is Latin for faithful. This is the most exhausting phase of fathering. Two words embody this phase. Show up, show up for everything. Miss nothing. And he says specifically from 5 30 to eight 30 feet PM. We know what that is. That's, that's dinnertime. That's bedtime. That's reading books. That's being there at that time. Finishing every day strong has a compounding effect over time.

So be present in showing up that it becomes almost boring to your family expected every time. In fact, show up so often that your absence at an event is even shocking. So this is a hard one. This, this cuts deep for a lot of first responders because physically we cannot be there a lot of the time. In fact, for me, I'm not there 50 % of the time.

And so it's that much more critical in my opinion, that when I am there, we have to put that as a priority and clear the schedule and make sure that you show up for everything when you are there and you miss nothing because our time is so fleeting in that, in that period that they need you, they want you there and it should be shocking. So luckily there are things like

Speaker 1 (03:31.67)
Some of my kids games are streamed online and I can comment afterwards to them about how I saw them. If I missed a game, can FaceTime them. I can say good night. I can read them a story and I've even tried to help with homework. Now, many of times we get interrupted. We get a call and I have to close out that quickly, but they know even when I'm gone that I'm there and I hope they do. And so I love this. There's a lot of young dads out there.

But I think it's a great reminder for all of us. Phase one of fatherhood per Jim Ramos is just to show up, be there. And I really like, especially that five 30 to 8 30 PM. All right. Phase two, this is the father figure. This is from ages 12 to 24. And he writes NFL hall of fame coach Chuck Noll once said, what you do speak so loudly. can't hear what you say. I'm gonna say that again.

what you do speak so loudly. can't hear what you say. So show up with your a game because your kids are watching you and they will remember he has a book on what great fathers tell their sons and daughters. And I have not read that yet, but I actually have put that on the list. That is something that I'd like to read as well. He seems like he's got a lot of great wisdom in fatherhood, but this phase from 12 to 24,

Your kids and I'm already starting to get this, right? My kids are in that age and they're watching everything you do. They'll see and they'll call me out if I'm on my phone too much. They see if I'm exercising. They see if I'm being a jerk or if I'm being nasty to the wife. They see everything. And I think this is the phase where you have to be an example is are your priorities in line? Are you a man of your word? Do you say what you do? Do what you say you do.

And it's an interesting thing to say in this time. That's a big span. I mean, the difference between 12 and 24 is massive. But I think it's a good point to say what you do speak so loudly. You can't hear what you say. This is my dad always does this. And what is that this? What are you doing? Or what am I doing repeatedly over and over that my kids say this is who I am? It's my opinion. We are who are.

Speaker 1 (05:56.768)
our habits are right. So if I continually do something over and over, that's just who I am. We have guys that, start jujitsu or workout daily, eat cleanly. And that one day turns into 10 days, turns into a few weeks to a few months. And then before you know it, they say he's a jujitsu guy or he's a clean eater or he's always working out or he's always there. And so I think,

This is a reminder to say that our habits are who we are, right? Kids are seeing what we do and how we do it. And hopefully they emulate some of the good things and maybe we can minimize some of the bad things. that's phase two. Phase three, he says, is the father friend. This is ages 24 to 65 for your children. And he says, I'm in this phase now. In fact, I'm looking forward to the interviews I'm having with my sons this year about how I parented them.

excited to hear the good, the bad, the ugly of my parenting. But I'm blessed to enjoy these close relationships with each of my sons today. This is the phase where rubber meets the road, where good dad enjoys the fruits of parenting through phases one and two, and where the driver of the relationships, you were in the driver's seat and you set the tone of relationship, but not in phase three. In phase three, your adult children determine what kind of relationship they wanna have with you.

They choose, not you. They control the relational narrative. Here you move into a friendship-like phase where you become a trusted coach, advisor if they seek it, and a mentor. They choose you based on your fathering in phases one and two, or they don't. Wow, crazy. So I am not anywhere close to this. My children are in phase two right now, but.

I do remember myself as a 24 year old man and I'm in that age of 24 to 65. And this is absolutely true. I choose depending on some of the past hurts and things like that of our relationship with parents today. I've lost two of my parents and I was able to absolutely squash some old beef and do some internal work to make sure that that was good. And we had repaired relationships. And after

Speaker 1 (08:19.746)
doing a lot of that work. was so grateful that I put in the work myself to forgive any old past hurts or hangups or resentments and get over those things and just see them as human beings that tried to do their best and move forward and not be a victim. And that's, that was really important, but that's absolutely true that I kind of determined what kind of relationship we had. I set the boundaries and I was the one inviting them into our new family, my family.

with my immediate with my wife and two kids. And this is an interesting thought to say based on how you did in phases one and two is how they will choose to be a part of you in the phase three of their life when they're growing, they're getting married, starting careers, all those good things. And his last phase is phase four is father forever, 65 and up.

I don't know if we'll see that. It seems like fireman died pretty early, but this is where the father watches his legacy and fold as his children raise grandchildren to serve the Lord. He quotes, if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve. But for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. That's Joshua 24, 15. says warning this phase will either be a time of tremendous joy or tragic regret.

based on what you did through phases one through four. Be diligent, men.

So, you know, in the FIRA program and my personal priorities, we put faith, family, fitness, career and service, and those are the five things. And faith is newer, but I realized that faith without works is dead. I have to have a faith to believe that there is a God and I'm not it. And I have to seek that. I think without faith, all those relationships.

Speaker 1 (10:22.198)
fall apart. That's the glue for me to serve and to be in the word and to be a practicing Christian and try to do the best I can to follow Christ. And the family is number two, where I always say the wife should come first and then your kids. I have absolutely failed. I'm putting the kids first and the wife second, and that didn't work. I have learned through trial and error that I have to put my wife first and then the kids.

And the kids are constant, right? But it's knowing that, we do have an opportunity to put our faith first, our wife second, and our kids third, and a parent well, because you only get one shot at this. think it's part of our purpose is to be on this earth, to have children and to raise them. And it's the most challenging and most rewarding thing you can ever do, at least for me. And man, would it be a blessing to say.

we can enjoy a time for a father forever where we can watch our legacy unfold, raise grandchildren and serve the Lord. I've seen some grandparents that have done this well, and then it seems like the greatest time in life is being that grandfather figure, being able to enjoy those grandkids and your children on a completely different level with no pressure. And that just seems like an incredible time of life. look forward to that. Knowing

though that I have to be diligent and put the daily work in now to my kids and to my wife and as a man of God to make sure that I've done okay in phases one, two, three, to be able to get to four. So those are just some thoughts on, and this is completely from Jim Ramos, men in the arena. absolutely implore you to check him out. It's pretty cool stuff all the way around, but I thought that was pretty thought provoking.

And we are currently training for the four by four by 48 challenge, which is happening in November with a bunch of savages, some program guys. so I'll let you guys know how that goes. We look forward to having Noel back on very soon here in his perspective and he's what he's got going on. And we have some good guests coming up too as well. So I hope you guys are well. I hope you enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (12:48.084)
something from Jim Ramos about the four phases of fatherhood and to see where you're at. Till next time, this has been the Fire You Carry podcast.

you

Speaker 2 (13:08.942)
it is that time once again we have our next class of the fire up program coming up quickly it's about a month out right now so follow the links in the show notes and get signed up this November class has a mix right now of guys signed up who are returning from other classes which is always cool and of course we have first time attenders as well this would be a great class for you to come to November always has great weather on the mountain it's just a great

time to get away, to get reset and to get fired up as we move into the coming holiday season. Best time of the year. Thank you again for listening and we'll see you next week.