242: The Five-Year Interview with Kevin

After a three-week hiatus, Kevin is back in the co-host chair! In honor of his return and the podcast's five-year anniversary, Nole turns the tables and interviews Kevin as if he were a guest on the show.

The guys kick things off with personal updates, including Nole's restorative trip to Hume Lake and his journey of finding a new church for his family after being challenged by the podcast community. From there, they dive into a deep discussion about the last five years of "The Fire You Carry," their vision for its future, and their dream guests.

Kevin opens up about the "fire he's carrying" right now—the drive to be a "Band One Dad" and connect with his kids as they navigate their middle school years. The conversation then shifts to the trials they're facing, with Kevin sharing his struggle of grappling with new physical limitations after his neck surgery and learning to find his identity outside of the intense physicality he's relied on for his entire life. It's a powerful conversation about growth, vulnerability, faith, and the future.

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Transcript

Nole (00:14.092)
Welcome back to the fire you carry podcast on today's episode. have the return of Kevin. He is back. And in honor of the fact that he is back after what has been three weeks, which just felt way too long. I come at Kevin with some questions. I essentially interview him as if he was a podcast guest and we have a great conversation and a fun time doing so. Thank you for listening. Enjoy.

Kevin (00:54.498)
Welcome back to the fire you carry podcast. Nolsa. We're we're on together. It's been a stretch.

Yeah, it's been a minute and I did contemplate coming on here and talking about wine, making excuses, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. fact. No, it's the same story every time. So they've already heard it. So the fact is we're back to.

You went up to Hume, right? How was that?

Yeah, that was great. It was our 11th year doing that with my wife's family. We're in the cabin up there and just hanging out. It was very good. Very good. Very restorative, relaxing time. We saw lots of nature and God's wilderness and creation. It was really good. Very nice. Had a couple of great conversations up there. dude, you do. Would be fun to get you guys up there with us, show you around.

I've never been out there.

Nole (01:47.595)
show you where I grew up.

Yeah.

I have to tell you, I got up there and I was all motivated. Day one and day two, I went for a run, which you know I don't do. I don't run.

It's altitude two up there,

Yeah, so just about 5,500 feet. And so first morning I told my wife, I'm going to go run. And she's like, what are you doing? What? I'm like, I'll be back later. I'll be back soon. Actually is what I told her because I didn't intend on running very far and I did not run very far. So I went for a little run out this road that I know up there is this dirt road and it was great. It's beautiful out there. Went for about a two mile run. Came back next day. I go for a run. I'm going to push a little bit further and by a little bit further, I mean a half mile further.

Nole (02:30.286)
So two and a half miles. I'm just killing it. And I get out there a mile and a quarter out and I realize no one knows where I am. I have no way of communicating with the world, even though I have my phone, but there's no service out there. My wife doesn't know where I'm at. She knows I went for a run. That's all she knows. She doesn't know what direction I went or anything. And I thought, this is how those stories always start. You know, like, so there I was. that goes missing. Anyway.

Progress.

Kevin (02:56.686)
He was.

I made it back alive and just fine. But I thought this is what I tell people. Like I tell, I've told my son not to do exactly what I did. It's as simple as saying, Hey, I'm going this direction. I'll be on this road, anything. And I just completely just didn't do that. And then, you know, it's pretty safe out there, but there's mountain lines, there's bears, you could break a leg, like all kinds of things can happen. longest story short, this is part of the reason why I don't run. It's not safe to run.

I mean, it turned out okay this time, but who knows? Could have been bad.

Running's not safe.

Before we get into the episode and what, what we're going to dig into, which I think is going to be fun. I do have to give an update. I've been meaning to do this for a while. Long, long ago, we had, the episode with our buddy shook. Yeah. And in that conversation, I mentioned that I wasn't taking my family to church on a regular basis. And through that, I had a bunch of guys reach out to me through the podcast and challenge me and encourage me. You need to be taking your family to church.

Kevin (03:51.229)
Yeah.

Nole (04:05.186)
was correct. So a few weeks back I went to church with a couple of program guys, actually with three program guys from this last class. And we went sandals, arrowhead, and I went there because of these program guys. They, Chris DuBois challenged me, Hey, you need to come to my church. And full disclosure, my wife and I were aware of this church on the mountain and it always made fun of it because what they do is they're a, they're a satellite church. So they,

do their worship and everything in person. But then when it's time for the pastor to speak, it's a video. They video the, they, they, yeah, they stream the guy in or it's recorded or whatever. I don't know how it works. And we always thought that's lame. I tell you what that first church we went to, the message spoke to me. The worship was amazing, like really good, which I love. You know, I care about that. You care about that as well. So that was really good. That was super fun. And Indy,

they beam in, yeah.

Nole (05:03.19)
Our little guy loved it and has every week since said, I want to go to Sandals church. And so we've been going and we, we missed one week cause we were at Hume, but watched it online. Obviously I'm missing today cause I'm at work, but my family went. So that's been very cool. And a lesson to me on two fronts. One, that's something that I've been convicted about. No, I've needed to be doing for a long time. And thank goodness for.

good brothers to come alongside and challenge and say, Hey, what are doing? You need to do this. And then lesson number two is, know, don't judge a book by its cover because I'm thoroughly enjoying pastor Matt's teaching and the other pastors that have taught, while we've been there, every, every sermon has been awesome. It spoke to me where I was at and also spoke to my wife and my, young son, Indy and Avery has also been come with us. North works on Sunday, so he can't go anyway. Don't judge a book by its cover. It's been awesome. The sermons have been so good that I've been

sending them to my some of my friends like hey listen to this you know so it's good stuff

That's great. We just got out of church. I'm glad you're going. I always find value in it. And realistically, we can only go like 50 % of the month. we're going to. Right. If we get to two a month, you know, we're doing good, I think, because of our schedules and whatever. But even today, feel like, you know, we have a seventh grader, she's pushing back a little bit. And I don't try to force. I don't try to force it. She's like, I don't want, I don't feel good. I don't want to go to church today. I was like, okay. But we took away phones.

and the remote controls and anything of access to YouTube or whatever, you know? And so she just sat and I'm like, you can read a book or hang out. Good luck. So we went, you know what mean? My youngest daughter loved it and she's our friend. And if anything, I feel like it's an hour for my wife and I to hold hands. It's an hour for, you know, if anything. Yeah, there's a connection point that we probably wouldn't have. Yeah. And but it's way more than that. I always get, you know, we always get into.

Nole (06:39.918)
interesting.

Nole (06:56.685)
cool.

Kevin (07:05.142)
New perspective, a difference of the world. mean, it's just a time to pause and some fellowship and stuff like that.

Absolutely. I agree with all that. It's really good. And obviously, you know, for me being kind of an introvert, we meet people, we talk to people, which is something I don't do in my regular life. So that's always good and positive. And yeah, just a lot of positives about it. The screen thing, last thing I'll say on it. I realized when I was in there watching the man preach from somewhere in Riverside where he is and wherever they record it. I realized that when I go to a church, like when my dad was at Fullerton, he'd be free.

Or if we go to Calvary, Chapuchino Hills, which we do a couple of times a year and watch Jack Hibbs, it's a giant church. They have the Jumbotron, you know, that's projecting the video of whoever the pastor is speaking. And when I'm in a room like that, I'm actually not watching. I can see the guy on the stage, whether it's my dad or Darren McWhorter's or Jack Hibbs, whoever it is, doesn't matter. I can see them with my eyes, but I don't look at them on the stage. I look at the video because

then it's like this, well, the video we're looking at, right? I'm looking right at him. can see his facial expressions. So it's really not that weird. And the big part that I think could be said about that being negative is that, you don't have a pastor there in your church, right? You can't talk to him. can't see him. Can't give him a bro hug. But each one of the Sandals campus churches has their own onsite pastor who also teaches.

once, sometimes twice a month, live in the church. So you do have a pastor there. It's not the guy you normally listen to, but it's a different guy. So they kind of, they kind of address that. I don't know that we'll stay here long-term, but right now it's been, it's been really good.

Kevin (08:44.664)
That's great. We both encourage you. to church. Thank you. I think it's great.

yeah, you're encouraging the listener. Yeah. Yeah, I thought you're encouraging me. Yeah It is good. Well, dude since it's been three episodes Since you've been on with me. Really? Yeah, we have three episodes right out right now. We have three episodes out right now that Just missed your voice I thought of some questions that I would like to roll through with you just to kind of catch back up because you and I haven't even really talked that much in the past couple weeks

You too, think it's great.

Nole (09:17.196)
So the first thing is our five year podcast anniversary has come and gone. That just happened. years. We've been doing this for five years, which is really amazing and hard to even fathom. Honestly, when I think about it, it's a long time. We are on our 249th or 250th, depending on how I released this episode and the one that you just recently recorded. But either way, we're not on that number wise. Like if you look at the numbers,

you know, the new, the numerics that I put in the title, we had a bunch of episodes early on that we didn't actually give numbers like fitness challenges and stuff. So it doesn't reflect that, but we have published almost 250 episodes. And so my question, all that leading up to my question is, what do you personally see or what do you want for the future of this podcast? Looking at it from the perspective that we do this for five years.

First, think that's great. Well done, Noel. You've done so much with that. We just had this idea and the idea came to fruition, I think, a lot with Richard Zuniga just pushing us off a cliff and saying to do it. I think my goal was I thought we were having some phenomenal conversations personally. You and I came from two different worlds. Me and Los Angeles, you and him, but we ended up in the same dorm at night and having some of the same similar struggles. I think that

It was like, hey, we should put these conversations out there and see if it helps somebody. And I think we have, like I've gotten messages over the last five years on how important it might've been just for one person or it might've been whatever. And not, we've never gotten like too crazy on the down the numbers or making it into something, but we're at a jump point, right? Where I'm like, hey, we've done 250 episodes in five years. And I keep getting messages from people and it's.

It's kind of that nature of the fireman. I don't like compliments. I don't like whatever, but people keep saying, are you guys going to do something on there? Are you going to, can make something of that, you know? And I feel like, there's been enough voices, that people have been telling us that they enjoy the content. And we have some super fans out there, which is amazing that maybe we should. And I was thinking about this the other day, like when I was in the business world, it was all, it was always a growth mindset. There was intentionality with goals and quarterly goals.

Kevin (11:38.902)
and yearly goals. And then you have to meet figures, you know, like sales and things like that. And I feel like you and I got in the fire services much more reactionary. You know what mean? Like we wait for the call, then we go on the call. We wait for the call, we go on the call and that we train and we prepare for the worst case, but it's not really like a growth mindset. And I feel like we've been institutionalized in that. So all that said, I almost feel like it's time for us to get together and say, why not? Why not like a see if we can reach more people?

And the idea being is because of the podcast, there are guys like Randy Lowe or Eric Story or guys all over the country, you know what mean? That we have connected with that we would never, ever, ever connect with. Yeah. Ever in our lives. And I think that's probably the greatest thing is that the relationships formed and some of the things that we have, the people that we have met, who else is out there? Maybe there's a guy in Australia. Maybe there's a dude in Afghanistan. I don't know.

But it would be neat to be able to put some intentionality in there to maybe see how, you know, we've never marketed the thing. Maybe we put it out there and see if there's other people that we can meet and experiences that we can have. And I think it grows me, grows them, grows everybody. I think it's something like that. If that makes any sense.

Yeah. Yeah. It makes a ton of sense. You've totally distracted me with your, with your comparison of the fire service world to the essentially the business world. That is really interesting. And I think that's dead on spot on accurate. mean, if you look at the way that we kind of conduct ourselves with the recording of the podcast, it's mostly most of the time kind of last minute. And, know, we really want to put out a consistent product. So we try our best to do an episode every Monday, but there hasn't been a lot of,

intentionality or planning behind that. And if we did just a little bit of that, I think you're right. I think it would grow. And the benefit to that is all those things that you stated. And an interesting thing, when I came down from Hume, I had been off, you know, my cell phone mostly for seven days. I had wifi so I could check in and make sure I wasn't getting recalled, but I wasn't looking at text messages. I wasn't responding to almost anything. And so when I came down from Hume, I had

Nole (13:52.052)
I didn't count them, but I would say I probably had a dozen guys reaching out to me via text to talk about various different things. And to me, I would say probably 90 % of those guys are podcasts or program guys. each one of those conversations, they're important to me. deeply value those. Usually those are dialogues that are ongoing with guys, but every single one of those relationships exists because, really because we started this podcast five years ago.

And that brings a ton of value to my life. And I deeply appreciate that. And I'm learning and I'm growing through every one of those conversations. So yeah, the more of that we can do the better. And it's, so humbling to look at the fact that, you know, this episode, because most of our episodes perform the same, this episode in the first month will, will hit hundreds of guys, right? And that's pretty cool.

I mean, that's overwhelming and it's humbling and it's awesome. But I do believe that there's a lot more like-minded guys out there that could learn from the stuff we talk about on this podcast and that we could learn from. And yeah, I agree with you. I'm with you. I think it's time.

And it's cool because when we have guests, know, like the podcast is an excuse to get together with. And it's like, like you just, you said I'm Ryan Schuch or whoever it be, you know, it's an excuse to get a good dude on the podcast. Right. And then obviously it's almost inevitable. Like we always become bros after that. And it's really cool. And so it's like, to me, that's, Hey, we've been, we've been blessed with this thing in our life. And one of the things that I see when we run our program,

something, right? Yeah.

Kevin (15:34.91)
is I'll call him a civilian, his guy that's not in the military, not in the first responder world. A lot of them do not have the camaraderie or friendships, male friendships that, and we're overwhelmed with them, right? We have so many of my great dudes and great guys that are on a path that are trying to do things and encourage each other. I feel so blessed with, and I think that's, this is one of them is that like, because of this podcast, we get to have dudes reach out to us and get me out of a funk or.

I can help them and that's very rewarding. know, and I feel like there's almost more reward than that than there is on any call that we go on now.

Hmm. Yeah, I would agree with that. All right. Second question, along the same lines with the podcast moving forward. If you could have any guest on this podcast, somebody who's alive right now, you keep it reasonable. Who would you talk to?

Man, that's weird. know, growing up in LA, you know, we were always coming across like, you know, famous people or movie stars or whatever. I've never idolized, I've never like fan boyed people. Right. It's just never been a thing. It's just another dude, you know, it's never been a thing. it would, think what would be fascinating is to talk to some of the people maybe in this realm that have done really well. you know, I mean, obviously like comes to mind as Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, Rich

Yeah.

Kevin (16:59.574)
You know what mean? And that they just, they've been doing this for 10, 15 years. And, and all those, those three guys, are fake, are kind of famous for keeping their production value very low and having maybe one person to help them out. And that's, that's fascinating to me because those are probably three of the top five podcasts in the world, or at some point they're in the top five podcasts in the world.

Yeah.

Kevin (17:24.704)
And they keep it very minimal. It's not a staff. It's not a whole thing. Tim Ferriss is famous for like sending his guest a microphone and he just does all his own production and does, you know what mean? it's incredible. what, Rogan has one guy, I don't know about Rich Roll, but I listen to all three of those guys intermittently. I don't listen to every episode. Like rarely do I listen to every episode, but I think it's fascinating what they built and it would be interesting to see if we could duplicate.

fraction of their success.

Yeah, I like that. Somebody asked, well, that's the problem. I actually didn't prepare. I wrote these questions down for you and, and then I didn't actually think about answering them myself, but this one, this one, I asked you because I got asked this up at Hume. I was talking to a group of guys that were aware of the podcast and were sometimes listeners. And I got that question, who would be like the guest if you could get anybody. And I had never thought about it before. And I'm, you know, I'm like you.

really idolize the normal people that would be idolized and even the people who I mean, you know, like the obvious list of people who'd be like, wow, that'd be fun to talk to at the same time. And this is something you and I have talked about a lot on this podcast. And I'll just use a name. Well, Joe Rogan is actually a good example of the opposite of this. So we'll go from the opposite side. I actually recently watched an episode of Gary Brekka's podcast where he had Joe Rogan on as a guest.

I clicked on that so fast because Joe Rogan is always the host and listening to him be interviewed was actually really good. And I enjoyed it. And I learned a lot about Joe and his, his, his life and stuff that I didn't know, which I found very interesting. So from that context, the guys you're talking about would actually be really fun. think because they're exactly cause they're on this side of the microphone all the time. I put them on the other side of the microphone, if that makes sense. But the answer.

Kevin (18:57.856)
Yeah.

Kevin (19:14.83)
Flip the script.

Kevin (19:21.559)
That's my thought too, a foot description just to talk to them. think it's fascinating.

Cause if you go and you talk to somebody like, you know, biggest ticket and a name I could ever think of right now would be like, if you got Donald Trump on this podcast, we we've all heard everything that guy has to say. I'm not going to get anything unique out of him. Would it be fun to talk to him? Yeah. Would it boost our download numbers for that episode? Of course. But none of that matters. And the conversation I'm sure would be great, but would it be the best conversation we could have? I don't think so because I know everything. Well, this is me being a little bit.

dismissive, but you know, I feel like I know everything he would say. So my answer to the question with this group of guys was I told them you guys, this group of dudes, you guys are the guests that I want. And the reason why is because every time we have someone on this podcast, all of our guests are guys who don't rise to the level of being on the Joe Rogan show, right? Mostly there was that one guy, but, those conversations are always amazing. Whether it's with

my brother-in-law Dustin out in Virginia running his own business or, you know, anybody else you could pick off the list. Those are all quote unquote regular guys. And we had great conversations. I learned from those. And so really that's what I love to do. That's, and I know it's what you love to do too. We talk about it all the time. So I'm not going to put an actual name on it.

Yeah, that's why I would say like, I love what we have done is I think it was intentional, if anything, that that I always thought we should highlight the everyday man heroes, what I call the guy that's working a job. He's grinding. He's trying to stay married. He's trying to stay fit. He's trying to be a good dad. And they're not they're not guys that are on the on the they're not known people. They're not you know what I mean? And like, you know, we had guys like a Vietnam win, you know, who is like a real good buddy mine from college. And he's a fascinating human.

Kevin (21:09.922)
He's an incredible dude. We've had, he's been on one podcast with us and, you know, he's, he's had multiple interns in law firms want to work with them because they somehow found our show. Heard his character. heard his backstory. And he said, that's a dude I would want to work for. And it, and, that's so cool to me, right. That like, you know, yeah, that we can highlight guys that are not, that are not the Joe Rogan's right. And I feel like sometimes that's.

Yeah

Kevin (21:38.594)
The reason why we've kept small, at the same time, that's what I enjoy the most is to hear from other men who are kind of on the same path as us. What are they doing? And if what can I take from them? You know what mean? What can I, what can I bring into my own life that would make that interesting?

All right. question is what fire are you carrying right now? And you know, you understand that question, but really in a positive context, what's the thing that's occupying your brain when you have time to sit and think when you're going to be working on something, when you have some free time, you know, what's the thing right now that's got you excited or that you're kind of working towards or that really is just occupying most of your, free time thought process.

Man, you know, we had, talked to Rick Cook the other day and he was talking about being a, you know, a band two fire, or band two engineer or band three captain, but he's band one dad. And it hit me and he was talking quite a bit about, you know, like that's the most important thing in his life is his, his relationship with his kids. And one of things he said is that like, we were specifically talking about my middle school junior hires.

Kevin (22:53.454)
that the world is on them. Like they feel the pressures of society. They feel the pressures of fitting in. You know, the teachers are on them, their coaches are on them, their mother's on them. You know what I mean? And just to like, just to love them, you know? And I find myself going, oh man, like I have like my one dollar, she's got almost all A's and one B. And I'm like, come on, let's go. Let's get this B. I'm like, I'm putting additional pressure.

And the fire I carry right now is that I'm in, I feel like an uncharted territory as far as marriage and fatherhood. didn't have the greatest example of what that is. And I don't know what it, I don't know what that looks like, but what I'm trying to do in the fire that I'm like really trying to carry is to say, is to be like the ministry of presence, just to be present and to be loving and to be encouraging and to breathe life and not what I want, but to find out what God has planned for them and what they are talented with and let them.

Hmm.

Kevin (23:48.674)
find their own path, which is really challenging. It's really challenging. Like my daughter not wanting to go to church today. But we have these moments where I have the seventh grader and she's like, how was your day? Good, whatever, everything sucks. But we went to the beach yesterday and there's no nothing there. You can't even bring your phone around so it's going to be covered in sand. And we just stood and, okay, so here's the thing. I want to take the board out and go surf.

Yeah.

Kevin (24:17.658)
I deserve that. It's in my head like, I'm owed this. can't wait. What she wanted to do it to sit on the boogie boards and stay on the inside and go party wave after party wave and just, and so I had to turn that off. Like I'm like, all right, take it off. And I stood inside with her and we had just belly laugh after belly laugh of her jumping on my back and doing a party wave on a boogie board. And then eventually I'd push her in a few, a few ways and I, spent hours, hours in the water.

And there was a connection there that we haven't, I haven't felt in a long time. It costs nothing. We drove to the beach and just spent hours in the, in the ocean. But to me, that was like, okay, that was a glimpse of what I should be doing. And that's, it's finding ways to connect because when it's not working, when she gets home, I was like, how was your day? What was your teacher? You get an argument with anybody. Anybody make you laugh? I'm getting nothing, you know? So trying to find those little connection points with both my kids is critical to me at this point where I feel like.

My time is limited with them. They're growing so fast and that it's gonna be gone that I have to try to find a way to connect and be that band one dad.

Yeah, that's that is beautiful. That is epic. I'm going to explain real quick for the listeners that are not in the fire service, or maybe they use them different terminology in the department you're in. But the banding thing is when you take a promotional test in our department, they band you and it's based on your performance. So if you're in band one, that's the best. That's the top you're going to get promoted first. If you're in band three, you might end up getting passed over if they don't need that many guys. So the principle there that that Rick Cook

and I still have to make sure I can put that episode out. really hoping it works. anyway, that principle there is being the band one dad. That means being the best dad you can be. And I love that. That's very good. Very good.

Kevin (26:06.734)
I was kind also here at church today to say that like, if it's natural for them to push away, right? And that means that like them just being physically in school, like the days that I'm home, naturally I have actually more time with the wife and to say like, my wife should come first and then the kids, even though Raffaele I carry right now is really focused on the kids, I should also look to pursue my wife.

I should also look to say, can I connect with her on her level? And if I look back, if I'm honest, it's very transactional. I need you to take her to practice. I need you to go here. I need you to this. I need shop and we're kind of doing that thing. We've been in that. And instead like, Hey, we just held hands in church today for an hour. And that was a great connection point. We both felt that was great. You know, I have to find more ways, whether it's taking a walk with her after dinner or.

inviting her to do something simple or trying to figure out that maybe that I have to be intentional with that relationship as well.

super good. Super good. All right. For me right now, I've kind of got two things that are just on my mind, kind of weighing on my heart a lot over the past, I don't know, few weeks, maybe even a couple of months. But the first thing and the longer term thing has just been this thought that I really want to

I really want to know what God wants me to be doing with this podcast, with the program, with my family, with my job, like all these things, because I feel like a lot of my life has been spent in me going and doing and pursuing things that are good, but that maybe are just coming from Noel's brain and like what Noel wants to do. And so when I look at things like the program, I want that to be what God wants it to be. I want it to, you know, reflect that and not what

Nole (28:06.358)
what I think it should be. And so trying to figure out how to, how to do that, how to hear that, how to find that. And that's been something that I've been thinking about a lot. And the other thing, this came up with a going to church thing. And then also specifically with, with tithing, which is a, you know, a principle from Christianity, but realizing that there are a lot of areas in my life specifically in kind of like the spiritual side of my life where

I believe things, I say things, but then when it comes to where the rubber meets the road, I actually don't live that way completely. So I might say that, you know, I trust God to provide for me financially. But then when I look at tithing, I might go, not this month. The things are a little tight. You know, I need that. I need that money in the budget type of thing. And so I don't do it. And so finding that balance of something that I believe, something that I say that I believe that I talk about, you know, when asked or whatever.

but then also falling through and having my actions reflect that. that's something I've been kind of wrestling with and working on. All right. What are you listening to? What kind of music you got going on right now? okay.

well, I'll switch it up. Our friend, Eric story a while back, San Francisco fire department, the captain, I don't know the ranking system, but he's up there. He was texting us like a few books that he had had. And one of them was person of interest. And I got the audible, you know, and I did quite a bit of commuting and I really liked this book. I'm almost done with it. It's by J Warner Wallace and he was a detective and I

I think he's been on like 48 hours, a bunch of those shows. And he's a phenomenal and he does this. Basically he was a non-believer and used his skill as a like a highly competent detective to go like actually prove that Jesus was real. And he parallels that with an actual, like an unsolved murder that he had a case that he had that that was almost similar to Jesus. There was no evidence. There was no blah, blah, blah about it.

Kevin (30:16.182)
and that he had to go back and find circumstantial evidence and eyewitnesses and other things to put together a piece. And by the end of this, he was doing this basically concurrently investigating this one murder and all of a sudden in putting, investigating, you know, Jesus and Christianity, he found the murder and he was convicted and he became a Christ believer. And it's a fascinating book. It's a really good book. I really like it. I would highly suggest it. And he narrates it, which I'm always a fan of.

That's cool.

Nole (30:43.234)
I love that. Yeah. That's very interesting. Somebody else was just telling me about that exact book and it wasn't Eric. So maybe that's my sign. need to read that one next to put it on my list. Actually, it's already on my list because Eric sent it to me too, but I haven't looked into it yet. That's I love that.

That's good. We are, um, been listening to a bunch of old nineties punk rock, um, the boys are getting together. One of the guys that I played music with since college is having his like 50th birthday party in March. And so the black market is getting back and we're going to practice. So I've been like playing and practicing. It's That's awesome. It's taken everything in my, like, well, I should buy a new drum set.

that's always good.

Nole (31:16.366)
So you guys are warming up.

Nole (31:20.888)
Dude, that's really fun.

Nole (31:25.89)
Right. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

It's not in the budget. No, we're close.

Dude in March, this is, this is good. You guys are practicing early. That's smart. You're going to die.

Can't get together, so I have to like practice individually.

Oh, OK. All right. I'm still dialed. Still dialed.

Kevin (31:42.658)
But, so you know I like everything from punk rock to jazz to whatever. Yeah. But do you know Louis Prima, the old school guy, he was like, I mean he was in the Jungle Book. was,

Yes, I know you're talking about. I recognize the name, but yeah, I know who you're talking about now.

There's a really fun part and I realize how much I enjoy like saxophone.

Dude, yes.

So let me just show you this sample right here, dude. This is a saxophone that comes in It's this link. It's called Buena Sera from Louis Prima

Kevin (32:22.286)
It's like fun jump blues, Wait for this sec! I think it's around here.

That's really good.

Kevin (32:36.342)
I'm gonna fast- There we go.

We can wait.

Nole (32:44.43)
It doesn't matter.

Kevin (32:52.718)
Here we go.

There it is.

Kevin (33:12.778)
I don't know what that is, but that puts me a good mood right there.

That is good mood music, dude.

I think they call it jump blues dude and he was like it was wild but man when you put on a little bit of that jump blues and what was that the holiday album that we have there's plenty of sax solo

yeah, the JD McPherson

Another thing is kind of like a jumpy blues saxophone heavy. I never really put my finger on it, but I really love good old school sax solo.

Nole (33:41.55)
So I'm going to take you to a totally different saxophone direction. Here we go. There's a band that my brother in law Dustin sent me and then subsequently my brother Edward sent me later. Those are hard. Yeah. The band is called Dream Wake and they're they're a metal core band. I guess you would term them, but they I'm just going to I'm just going to give it away. I'm going to link to one of these songs, but they they have a saxophonist in their band. Let's go. You think metal core and saxophone like I thought that there's no way that works.

Hardcore guys,

Kevin (34:10.306)
That's Bill Murray too, right? Bill Murray does that.

does some of that stuff too. Yes. It's really, dude, it's good. So I'm going to, I'll have a link to that. It's a totally different vibe. Not as fun, not as bouncy, but it's very, it is still very fun.

first time I heard Bill Murray do that and I was like what I love it and hated at the same time and now I'm more on the love side.

Yeah, yeah. Kind of, kind of just can't stop listening to it. I love

yes, send us that. Put us that link out dude.

Nole (34:34.22)
Memories by Dreamwake. think that's the one. All right.

You got anything right now in your life that you're, you're disappointed about, or that you're maybe just not feeling content with, something's bothering you.

Do you have a definition of what a trial would be in Christianity?

Definition.

I mean, I know like God uses trials like when you hear about it to prove like the authenticity of your faith, like showing you whether you can really trust him in difficult times. And I believe often in like, and this is just in my life, like life didn't automatically get easier when I became a Christian. feel like at many points, sometimes it was easier when I was a non-believer because I just didn't have any, right? And that at certain times you go through trials.

Kevin (35:25.888)
like, you go through things that whether it's in your marriage or in your faith or personally to say, and so I feel like one of the interesting things that I had this significant neck injury and I had surgery, everything since then, it's like post next surgery, everything is different, right? I've worked hard to get back into my normal self, but I'm not nowhere close to where I was a few years ago before the next surgery and before, you know, like, and so

I feel like it's almost a trial because I've grown in faith over those years and that the program and you and I've read the Bible more that like when I try to do things and stay with what I used to be able to do and I used to be able to do, I get nothing but injured. And like, I feel like every time I try to do something like the guys want to go do this four by four by 48 when I try to run like.

new injuries happen. Like I pulled my calf and then my knee hurts. then every time I try to like join in on like the group workouts, which I loved and you know, I was like, you're the band of those who want to list some heavy, it just doesn't work. There was other guys that invited me to go to El Salvador on a surfing trip. I went out yesterday after I spent a great amount of time and I tried to serve and I feel like I was in a car accident and it's wrong. It's very depressing, right? Like, and I can really get like, but I, I'm

come to believe like as of this morning, like going through church, this is just a trial. Like I was testing my faith and perseverance and can I be resilient with, if I'm honest, those, the physicality and the things that I was the primary tool that I've used for my mental health, probably for my entire life is that when things were tough growing up, I poured into sports when things were like,

I was stressed out, was angry, was pissed off, would pour into workouts, I would pour into beating. And I can't physically do that, right? And so I feel like, I don't know, I'm just talking out loud that that is a current trial that I seem like I can't really overcome what has happened and I am totally different now. And coming to terms with that is the main thing.

Nole (37:43.67)
Yeah, I kind of hate this, honestly, and

Nole (37:48.962)
I've had a very similar conversation with two different guys this week who are in different situations, but similar to yours where there was an injury and now they can't do the things that they used to do. And you know, what do you do? How do you move forward? And I think the reason why I hate this, the reason why I say that is that

I hate it because I feel like there are things in my own life that I lean on that at some point or another, God has either taken away or is probably going to take away because I rely on them too much, if that makes sense. And there are times and seasons where that stuff is good and positive and there's nothing wrong with sports or working out. Like it's all good, but there might be a time like what you're saying where God

grabs ahold of you a little bit and says, I want you to spend more time paying attention to this other stuff. And that doesn't mean that we walk away completely from being physical or being the men that we're supposed to be or doing the job that we do. Right. As long as we're physically capable of doing it, we still do it we still push forward. But, losing that, a, it's going to be a reality for all of us as men anyway, as we age, right? We have to walk away from certain things. I went out in the woods the other day to throw the caber.

that's just laying in my woods. We don't do Highland games anymore. I don't intend on doing the future, but I thought that might be fun. And I threw it a few times and, after I threw it a few times, I tried to throw it again and I almost dropped it on myself and I had to walk away and go, maybe I shouldn't be doing this right now. Maybe, maybe there's no reason to throw that log that way. It was fun, but I almost injured myself. And you know, so as aging happens for all of us men, there will be things that we do have to walk away from and

if we relied on those things, if that was part of our identity, that's going to be difficult. And I don't think, I don't want to say that in a sense where it sounds negative that, you know, because of your physicality and your love of working out how you've used that, you know, to get the demon out and all that stuff. don't think those things are negative, but I do think that it's fortunate, but it's also unfortunate because from my perspective, I'd rather God work on me and still let me keep that kind of stuff. But that's not often what he does. And he doesn't always take away those things, but sometimes he does.

Nole (40:05.882)
And about a month ago, I actually had a really good conversation with a guy who was severely, severely injured, couldn't do anything for, I mean, probably similar to you with your, with your injury, right? Where you have a surgery and you can't really do anything for a while. You've been through that and hearing him talk about struggling with that, but then the things that he learned and took away from that and the amount of time that he had with his family and in the word that he hadn't been doing before.

It's good and it's encouraging and that's hard, right? That's a hard lesson because you don't want to lose that other stuff. But keeping that perspective, like what you're clearly walking through and what you have is just the idea that, what else can I do? And what are the things that are eternal and that really matter rather than just sit and focus on, woe is me, right? I wish I could do that, then moving on and go, well, what else can I do? And I know you're not in the woe is me camp, but I appreciate that.

No, and so let's say I was always and still am a believer if you're a young man to put a date on the calendar, whether it be for a competition or something, I feel like it gives you motivation. It always gave me motivation to train, right? And I feel like, you know, hey, you know, was that taken away from the family? I don't know. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Maybe I put too much thought or time into that one thing.

And now maybe I think I have to put things on the calendar with my wife, or I have to put things on the calendar with my kids, or I have to do things maybe at work or for the podcast or for the program. That's not where I'm going to spend, you know, if you're training for a marathon or a triathlon, which I've done in the past, you had to spend quite a bit of time training on the road, you know, swimming, running, biking, doing those things.

And maybe that my time is better served or he wants me to do something else with that time. And I have to be okay with knowing that like, Hey, my bro pumps and I'm some cardio from time to time is enough. You know what I mean? Which I don't like, I want to burn it down. know I And I want to be with, you know, we have some, some incredibly fit dudes at my station on my shift and they, love.

Nole (42:08.163)
Yeah.

Kevin (42:16.952)
the camaraderie of getting after it with the guys. And I feel like I have to not only modify, but sometimes I just have to say no, because I just, it's a detriment to my long-term, you know? So that's really hard to swallow. And I think it's but I'm, I'm, I'm coming to terms with the point where I'm like, how many times is he going to tell me? Like, this is not what I want you to do. I'm giving you the signals you keep breaking, like do something else.

Yeah. And that's really tough. That's really tough because God made you to be a physical man. He made you to be a warrior, right? You're in this line of work. You thrive in that physical world. And so he made you like that. So that's part of who you are for sure. It's part of your identity. And so whenever anything comes into challenges, that it's tough, it's difficult. And I'm not currently in that place, but I've been in that place when I've had injuries and things. And I mean, you know, like the log.

there are things that I've been doing in my fitness over the past few years where I'm modifying things and I don't do the same stuff with the same intensity level as I did even two years ago, you know, so that happens and it is different though when it happens gradually and because you're choosing it versus, you know, it's being chosen for you.

Count it all joy, my brothers. What's that verse? Is that James?

That is James.

Kevin (43:33.826)
you know, when you've eaten trials of various kinds because it produces perseverance, right? And so I feel like that's it. feel like, it, I want to, it's hard to say like, you know, everyone's like, maybe you just don't stretch enough. Like a lot of people that are like non-Christian or don't believe like, you're just not doing the right things. Right. Right. Right. But, and then everyone's got an answer of like, have you tried this? Have you tried peptides? Have you tried? Right. like,

You're just not doing it right.

Kevin (44:01.558)
I feel like it's just pushing me in a different direction. don't really know what that is yet, but it is, but it is a trial. is like, I'm like, it is a trial.

Yeah. And to answer your question at the very outset, trials in our faith can be a myriad of things. There's no, I can't think of a dictionary definition, but that qualifies in my mind very well, you know, of being a trial. you're, mean, especially since I've had these conversations just this week, I know you're having the same conversations with other guys, other places. It's very common. So that would definitely qualify as a trial.

Yeah. And it seems silly in the light of like real trials and adversity. When you think of Charlie Kerr, what Kirk or what you and your wife have gone through in the loss of a child or like things like that. But it is my world. It is something that I have leaned on probably too heavily. And I'm not saying those things, but good and bad things happen to good people. And I do think that he tests and it's always afterwards. It's always afterwards that I have a perspective like, I went through that because of that or that pushed me into this direction. I always look at like

Whenever it's grinding, whenever it's tough, like I'm not in the midst of it. I'm like, this sucks, you but it's usually afterwards that I do have perspective that says, maybe this leaned me into this direction and grew me as a better person, you know? And I can, and that's almost impossible to understand as God's will and why some things happen and why others don't, but it's all, that's when I always like talking to guys like your dad.

Yes.

Kevin (45:37.666)
or to wise men and to figure out that they've been through so much and they just, every day they wake up and grateful for another day and put their shoes on and do what needs to be done.

Yeah. Amen. All right. Last question. This is probably the hardest one, I think. At least I thought it was when I thought about it. picture yourself. You've been invited on the Joe Rogan podcast.

boy.

What question would you want him to ask you? Just one question.

You know what? have no idea. have no idea. I'd let the professional do his work and see what he has, but he no information on me. But what I have found is that, let's say my own struggles of growing up or my own struggles with alcoholism or anything like that was always very private to me. one of the things that we have, I have learned through this podcast or even the program, is that sharing that story.

Nole (46:16.619)
See where it went.

Kevin (46:39.338)
is helpful to other people. Like sharing some of the misery, like there are other people that have been like, I've been there, I felt that I'm going through that right now. I think, you know, I wouldn't, if there was one question to ask him, it is like, is something along those lines of adversity, maybe in through so bright or through something else that to say, how did that do that? And I think the only,

I tried everything on my own to stop drinking. couldn't. The only time it worked is when I got on my knees and asked God who I didn't understand to help me stay sober one more day. And that was the only time anything changed is I prayed to God. I didn't believe that I didn't drink that day. And then I tried to repeat that. And that eventually led to me believing in Christ and Christianity. And then I look back and it's almost like two different lives. Right. And it seems like it seems like I don't even know that person.

But I would love maybe something like to share a story similar to that if possible. And I think he's really open to that. And recently, think Rogan's had a lot of Christian theologians on and people that are, and you can tell like he seems to have changed recently, which is be interesting.

Yeah, I like that answer. That's a really good answer, actually. And I mean, that just speaks to to who you are and your heart for helping other people who may be coming out of a place similar to yours. And just that desire to have that. Because I mean, obviously, when you say Joe Rogan, you're talking about a gigantic platform. And so then the real question for you, what I hear you saying is not how can I, you know,

extend my reach, how can I benefit myself by being on this giant platform, but rather how can I benefit other people, which I think is really rad. And that's the Kevin Welsh that I know. That doesn't surprise me at all. But I think that's a really solid answer is that you would take, if you had that opportunity, you would take that opportunity to say, Hey, here's what happened to me. Here's what I did. And here's subsequently how I dug out of that hole and what helped me do that. I think that's solid. And that's what we do at the program, right?

Nole (48:51.318)
I love that.

I think that's, anything, the program and the podcast have grown us because I remember working with you and we didn't never heard your story ever. I think three or four years in, know, still haven't, we, know what I mean? And now by being able to talk about, I feel it's very healing for both you and me when we talk about some of our, our deep secrets, right. Or our struggles. And I feel like that's helped us, right. Not to be as much of a victim and

doesn't take ownership of it because I think we realize that God has given us the power to help somebody else, you know, and like, can't tell you how many times somebody comes up to me after they hear your story and are just blown away. And like, so like if he can do that and still he's here now, what can I do? Right. You know, and so I think it's really powerful. think too often I think we're, we're meant to like, we just hold this in. Right.

And maybe that's not the way, at least for you and me, maybe that's part of our thing as part of our healing, part of our journey is to share that with other people because they might be afflicted with the same thing.

Amen.

Nole (50:05.282)
Well, my friend, those are all the questions I have. Here's to the next five years.

Great

Yeah, buddy. It's been a ride. can't, I can't thank you enough for all you've done. And man, it's so cool. I love what we're doing. I love what you're doing, brother.

Yeah, same. Thank you. This has been a good, good ride. And it isn't over. Don't hear, don't hear, say, don't hear me say, this has been a good ride. And then think, Oh no, they're going to shut it down. Now we're going to continue. We're going to keep doing this. It's rad.

Can I mention one last thing? We have two podcast guests and one of them is a program guy that both have a book out right now. Todd Bradstreet, give an answer. I'm about halfway through that, which is awesome. Todd Bradstreet is a myriad of fire captain, also a biblical counselor and started his own nonprofit, which is really cool, which he helped them do that. And the Joel Weldon has a new book out, which I just got in the mail today.

Nole (50:41.518)
Kevin (51:03.606)
you are the message. So I can't wait to dig into that. I'm going to finish Todd's book and then get into Joel's book. But I think looking forward, those are two guys that I would love to have on after I read their books and get into that.

Yes, that is awesome. I didn't know Joel wrote a book. Good stuff.

Yes.

Kevin (51:24.792)
Till next time, this has been the Fire Eukaryote Podcast.

Nole (51:38.744)
Thank you guys so much for listening. Man, I cannot believe it has been five years. Kevin and I cannot thank you enough for supporting us throughout that time. Whether you found us in the very beginning and have been with us that long or have just started listening, we absolutely love that you're out there. We deeply appreciate you. If you want to show us your appreciation, the best things that you can do for us are go leave us a review on iTunes.

Go leave us some comments on Spotify. Make sure that your podcasting app, whichever one it is, is downloading each one of our episodes every time they come out. Set it for automatic downloads. All that stuff is a big help, but more than anything, we just appreciate you. We're thankful that you're out there. And we look forward to seeing you next week.

Nole (52:46.84)
Would I answer these questions?

Yeah, I don't know. mean, I haven't thought about it either. So we're going off the cuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.