234: Mouth Taping, Traumatic Calls, and Feeding the Good Dog

In this episode, Nole and Kevin jump straight in with an urgent call to action for everyone to sign up for the 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb. The guys then dive into a compelling discussion about the book "The Rescuer" by Jason Sautel, exploring the idea that first responders leave a piece of themselves on every call. This leads to a broader conversation about professionalism, personal accountability, and the internal battle between doing what you know is right versus taking the easy way out, whether that's cleaning the station bathrooms or avoiding the endless dopamine chase of "doomscrolling." They touch on proactive mental health, the tools they use to stay grounded, and the simple but powerful act of mentorship. Finally, Nole shares his latest bio-hacking experiment: mouth taping for better sleep.

Key Topics & Timestamps

• (00:13) - Urgent Call to Action: Sign up for the 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb now!
• (02:01) - Book Discussion: "The Rescuer" by Jason Sautel.
• (02:20) - The concept of leaving a piece of yourself on every call.
• (04:00) - The profound impact of small, professional acts on the people we serve.
• (06:49) - The "Shopping Cart Theory" and the importance of doing what's right when no one is watching.
• (08:45) - The trap of doomscrolling and its effect on being present with family.
• (11:05) - Understanding social media as an addiction to dopamine hits.
• (14:30) - How reading "The Rescuer" brought up uncomfortable emotions and memories of traumatic calls.
• (17:25) - Using the HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) method and the value of proactive mental health check-ins.
• (19:25) - The constant battle of feeding the "good dog" versus the "bad dog."
• (20:10) - The common struggle of knowing what to do for self-improvement but failing to execute.
• (23:10) - Kevin discusses his sobriety and why alcohol isn't a viable coping tool for him.
• (25:36) - Nole provides an update on his journey of quitting nicotine.
• (28:00) - The power of fatherhood, mentorship, and positive male role models in the fire service.
• (36:00) - Nole shares a tool for starting difficult but important conversations.
• (38:32) - Mouth Taping: Nole's deep dive into using "Hostage Tape" for better sleep.
• (45:55) - Final details and push for the 5th Annual 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb.

Resources Mentioned

• Event: 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb Registration
• Book: "The Rescuer" by Jason Sautel
• Bible Verse: James 4:17
• Sleep Aid: Hostage Tape, 3M Micropore Tape
• Health Service: Function Health Blood Tests (for County employees)
• Send us an email: thefireupprogram@gmail.com
• Sign up for a class at The Fire Up Program!
• The Fire You Carry Instagram.

Transcript

Nole (00:13.836)
You are listening to the fire. You carry podcast. It's traditional that you would give a call to action on a podcast at the end. That's just what everyone does. And apparently it's the correct way to do it. But today I'm to give the call to action right here at the beginning, because it's that important. We absolutely need you guys to go sign up.

for the 9-11 Memorial Stair Climb. The link is in the show notes. It's just below the episode description. If you don't know how to find that or do that, you can also go to our Instagram and at the top in our bio, there's a Linktree link. And if you click on that,

The link to sign up for the 9 11 Memorial stair climb is right there as well. We've got some more details for you about that at the end of the episode. So if you need more information, just go ahead and listen through, but we need you guys to sign up. It's very important to us. This is obviously a great event. It means a lot to both Kevin and I and the whole team, both at the fire program, but then also the extended podcast family. great event. So please go do that. Go sign up today's episode is Kevin and I catching up talking about a book that we

Nole (01:42.948)
Thank you for listening. Enjoy.

Kevin (02:01.688)
Noel and I just read The Rescuer by Jason Sattel. Pretty fascinating book. I actually got to see him as the keynote speaker at a chaplain's breakfast what about a year ago? And it's pretty fascinating book. It's from Oakland. He was an Oakland fireman, paramedic and his concepts of him kind of having something evil inside of him. Yeah, I don't know if you read that part, Noel, but something that stood out to me.

is he said one of his skippers told him that you leave a piece of you on every call and you also take a piece from something on that call with you. Remember hearing them say that? I thought that was interesting because too often do we forget the impact that we have because I'll hear from a family member or something said I had to call 911 and it was like they told me all the details of the firemen and what they did and how they picked up the trash and how cordial they were and the

Yeah, yeah

Kevin (02:59.15)
And of course they said, my nephew or somebody is a fireman in LA and blah, blah. But it's a reminder that you have like this one, that is the one time or two times in their lives that they're going to call 911 and they remember it distinctively. And if it's something, you know, depending on what we got going on, I do think that we take a piece of it, of maybe a traumatic call or something super stressful. I haven't really thought of that, that we leave a piece and take a piece almost every time.

Yeah, that is really interesting. There's definitely an aspect of taking a piece of the call with you that is, that makes a lot of sense. That's pretty clear, especially on the traumatic stuff. think on the mundane kind of day-to-day basic medical calls, it may not be the case as much, but for sure on the stressful ones, but yeah, leaving something behind that is interesting. And that also becomes kind of part of the mundane for us. Like you mentioned picking up trash.

I was on duty yesterday. We ran a call. We did a 12 lead. So there's always trash on the ground after the 12 lead, right? From the, from the, the leads and we pick it up. Like, I don't know who taught me to do that, but someone taught me to do that. So I pick up the trash, right? We wouldn't leave it on the ground in our own house. So we pick it up and that is something that you do get thanked for on the job. You know, if the, if the matriarch of the home is there or whatever, they will thank you or they'll say, don't worry about that.

So that is making an impact and it's really small and seems very insignificant. It's not even something I really ever even think about. But in that moment that can have a very real impact on those people because I mean, they're in a heightened situation, right? They're, they're days bad. They called nine one one, whatever that is. And that little gesture can make a big impact.

it would. Imagine if you had a full arrest, you got pulses back, you scooped them up and ran to the hospital. You know what mean? And let's be real, a lot of the times that person doesn't make it. Sometimes I get frustrated because we'll get pulses back and then back and forth and then they'll lose them. And then the hospital immediately calls the person and pronounces their death. I'm like, dude, we work so hard on, you know. But imagine if that family who runs, they come back to the house after losing their loved one.

Kevin (05:17.122)
just has all the remnants of trash, sanity that, you know, I think it would definitely, you know, trigger them or do something. would be that much more traumatic. You know what I mean? So what a professional thing does like just to clean up and, and do. And you know what, that's one of those things that you heard stories of the old school guys going on a slip and fall, you know what I mean? For an elderly couple who is by themselves and notice that, you know, the lawn was, and they mowed the lawn or took out the trash to do those things.

I really loved that part of those guys, the old school mentality of like, I've just taken care of the scene, leaving a little bit better than you found it if you can. And then sadly, I think that sometimes now our call volume for most stations is too high where you can't sit there and mow the guy's lawn for him. You know what mean? You're just onto the next call.

Yeah, that is sad because as you were saying that I was thinking that is a thing of the past. And that's the first thing that came to my mind is there's not time in the day to do that kind of stuff anymore. Even though we do have plenty of guys on the job who absolutely would love to go the extra mile with things like that. It's just not a reality because we're just onto the next call for most of us.

Yeah, I've heard those stories of there was guys like, you know, the guy had a stroke while he was building his like retaining wall on the side of the yard or something. The guy scooped him up and the took him and they finished the wall for him.

the wall. which is just the best. What a great story. wish I could have been a part of something like that. Maybe someday.

Kevin (06:45.176)
That's so cool.

Kevin (06:49.774)
Well, that comes down to yesterday. I got a message from an old friend from Turk County, Derek Reisman, who we had on the show. And it was a video of him taking his shopping cart back. Yes. You know what I mean? And we talked about that forever, but that's along the same lines of that professionalism is that of like cleaning up. Do you have to know, is there something in our policy that says you have to clean up the 12 lead cables in the trash and the band-aids? No, there's not.

but it's an internal thing that says you should, right? And it's the same thing of like, it boils down to like, do you put the shopping cart back? you picking up, are you doing what you're supposed to do? And it's so easy to not to. The verse of the day on my Bible app was James 4.17, says, remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it. Boom! Like, you know what you're supposed to do, but you don't do it.

Hmm.

Kevin (07:47.596)
That is a sin. we've manned away. We'll fill it that one sometimes.

Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. mean, I'm feeling guilty right now. I'm just going to out myself.

I haven't cleaned the bathrooms yet today.

that's funny.

I knew that I should do it and I still have time. We're still at the beginning of the day. I still got time to do it. I will do it, especially now that I said something about it. But I found other things to do this morning that were not cleaning the bathrooms and that's my job. That's my job. I don't think that's a hundred percent what he's talking about, but it really is. There is a part of that where that actually is part of my daily job. So if I don't do it, that is, that's incorrect.

Kevin (08:37.23)
Yeah, recently I feel like for me it's like, I know I should put this stupid phone down and go find a fun activity to do with the kids, you know? But I just want to endlessly scroll, you know what mean? Or I don't know, I just feel like I need to check out or something. And I'm like, I know this is not right. And I'm sitting, you know what mean? And then some days I'm good, I'll catch myself and I'm like, yeah, put this stupid phone away. You know what I mean?

or other days I completely fail depending on what your stress level is or what's going on in the house. It's just a checkout.

Yeah, I really liked when I was talking to Ryan Shook a couple of weeks ago and he's a dumb phone guy, doesn't have a smartphone. But one of the things he talked about that spurred him to make that change was looking at the weekly amount of time spent on different apps, which is a feature in I think most smartphones. And we talked about it in that episode, but it's definitely something that we all should be looking at.

genius.

Nole (09:39.05)
And if not trying to completely remove it, at least reduce it, right? Cause you know, if you look at it, you know, if I look at mine, I know that there are hours a week spent on YouTube and some of that time is, is super valuable to me because you know, this week, for example, I've been looking at stuff revolving around the podcast and how to start utilizing video and stuff. So that's good. That's good learning and stuff, but still does it need to be, you know, whatever it is, four hours a week or whatever, like that's a lot of time.

And that's probably not accurate. It's probably more than that. But how much of that time could I be using for something actually constructive? Cause while I do watch videos like that, I also watch videos that are, you know, about shooting or the latest gun that came out and stuff. I enjoy that stuff, but is it actually valuable when I could be doing something with the kids or doing something constructive around the station? Probably not.

Yeah, YouTube's funny because I used to like it a lot more and I would rationalize my YouTube usage because I'm like, learning something. I'm always like, right. You can, and you can absolutely do that. But then they created this thing like shorts, which is more like, it's like, can just doom scroll through shorts. And that's really similar to like Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever. you, there's no value there. There's no value. And it's just grabbing these quick attention grabs.

or there's something visually that I probably shouldn't be looking at or whatever it is and it does nothing for me. You know what mean? So like, hey, looking up how to fix the dryer is one thing, but like just doom scrolling on shorts or Instagram is not beneficial to me at all.

Right. And what that is, is it's given us a little bit of a dopamine hit, right? When you find that video that's entertaining or makes you laugh or whatever, like you get that little bit of dopamine. And so we're constantly looking for that because our brains love it. And that's why, I mean, that's why we all do that is because we're, we're addicted to that and we're looking for it. And when you think about it in that context, it kind of makes it feel a little bit icky in my opinion, like, God, what's wrong with me?

Nole (11:40.098)
But it's, but it's all too easy just to not even, you know, you're mindlessly scrolling, right? So you're not thinking about it. You're just looking for the next video. That's going to entertain you. Are you not entertained? you not?

And yeah, and there's, um, don't know if I get feelings sometimes that like, should call this guy. And I do think that I think now is that's like the Holy spirit or something moving within me to say, Hey, reach out to this guy, you know? And sometimes I don't because I want to, it's, it's more uncomfortable because I know it's going to be a long conversation or whatever it is. You know what mean? Oh, wait, I don't want to bother him. I'll, I'll come later. But I feel like that that's part of that.

Kevin (12:21.838)
That Bible verse, like maybe that's like, is telling you like, you know you should call him, call him. vice versa, when the phone rings on you, how easy is it to decline or silence the thing instead of answering the call?

Yeah. Yeah. So last week, one of our program guys, podcast listener came over to the station and he came over because I got one of those, I got a, I got a feeling. I thought about him and this is a guy who's active in our discord. And like I said, he's been up to the program. So, you know, I've talked to him. I'm aware of a little bit of what's going on in his life, but I just, I thought about him and thought I should send him a text and I did and

started talking a little bit and I was like, Hey man, if you're ever coming home from work and you want to stop by, just come hang out. Cause he's, I think he said something like, I'd love to have a cup of coffee or something sometime. And I was like, the easiest way to do it is come here. Cause I live very far away. So long story short, he came over for a cup of coffee. We ended up, of course he saw the Atlas stones. Actually, I think he'd seen Kailin lifting the Atlas stone. So he was like, to try the stone. So we tried the stones and then we did a full on workout. Yeah. Talking about Jordan.

But we had a great conversation and something that came up during that conversation is I realized that I'm in a really unique situation here at this station where guys can come over here and hang out and do a workout. My captain is very cool with it and we're in an isolated area that feels like you're camping. Like it's kind of a cool environment. So I put it out in the discord and I'm saying it here publicly, cause I know a lot of you are not in the discord. Most of you are not in the discord, but.

If you want to come hang out and have a cup of coffee, maybe do a workout, you just got to hit me up and I'll tell you what days I'm here and you can come by. My captain loves having visitors and we can hang out. We can work out if you want. We don't have to, but we're going to, and I'm just going to throw that out there. It's an open invitation.

Kevin (14:21.294)
Alright, I'm coming over,

Well, yeah, you need to. I've got some of your stuff over here. Actually, I need to pass on to you. So yeah, come on down.

And so in reading this, the rescue book by Jason Sattel, it made me uncomfortable in the beginning, because I've been on these identical calls.

Yeah.

Nole (14:41.92)
I know, isn't that crazy?

And like the way he describes station life and the stuff, it's dead on accurate. You can tell immediately, but he's a fireman medic in an inner city.

Yeah, even though he was working for Oakland, which is nowhere near here. And, you know, he's from a kind of a previous generation, right? He's retired now. So it was a long time ago, at least in the context of us.

But it did make me wonder if I'm doing the work on resiliency that I should, because it made me more uncomfortable than I'd like to be. Because I think there's, you and I have talked about this, but I have probably five or six calls that recur, right? Like in my head, those haunt me, right? And like, I've literally actively talked to therapists about it. I've talked to chaplains or pastors with it. I think it's valuable to bring it up.

But then when he says a call like that's literally identical to one of those five that like haunt me, you know, it still brings up that weird emotion where you feel that lump in your throat, that whatever. And I'm like, is that normal or do I got work to do?

Nole (15:48.62)
Yeah. His book made me uncomfortable as well. And I, I teared up. I actually got a little emotional at one point for the same reason that you're describing and

I mean, first off, it's just a really well-written book. It's not, it doesn't come across as I'm a bitch and fireman. Look at me. But it is really honest about the job. And he did work in a place that was very dynamic, right? Oakland is, is, and was a very dynamic place to work. But, so he definitely collected some stories during his time there, but it was fascinating.

how closely some of those stories did mirror some of the things that I've experienced. And it makes sense when you think about it, but at the same time, it did give you that moment of going, yeah, this isn't unique to me. And the responses are also not unique. And yeah, I think that's a great question. What am I doing? Because it is easy for us in the situation that you and I are in where we're so aware of all this stuff and of the post-traumatic stress and

the sleep deprivation, like we're aware of all that, but it's still really easy to, to forget to then take the next steps of how you deal with that stuff and how you process it. Because oftentimes, I mean, I think this is what you're saying. I know I'm this way. I can feel like, I'm good. I'm okay. And that may not always be the case. Just because I know the answer doesn't mean I'm executing the next steps.

Right and so For me if something like this pops up I have to like go back to the basics and say am I hungry? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I tired? That's that whole halt thing, you know hungry angry lonely tired And I'm like, maybe I ought to eat something. Maybe I need to take a nap. Maybe I need to exercise, you know, and You're gonna take cares of your basic needs first but then if I'm still feeling uncomfortable and I still feel like

Kevin (17:53.122)
Well, I do need to make the uncomfortable decision to make an appointment with a max case or a clinician or the Mike DeCentas of my world, right? And to say, I don't know, this made me feel uncomfortable. And it's not, I don't think it's a weakness thing. I think it's sometimes proactive in checking in. Like you're getting your oil changed before your engine explodes. I find that sometimes it's beneficial to just proactively check in, not because it's hitting the fan.

But I'm like, this is a recurring uncomfortableness that I tend to run from. And I know you preached about it all a lot at the FIRE program, but the concept of like going into the storm instead of running away from

Yeah. If you're not.

Nole (18:41.934)
I just lost my train of thought. This book by Jason Sautel, the rescuer is really good and definitely something we both recommend you read. We are going to have Jason on the show very soon. So we'll be talking more about it, but I don't know that we've recommended a fireman book ever on this podcast. In fact, I'm confident that we haven't. So this is a first, but it's definitely worth a read. It's, not long and it's an easy read. It's very compelling.

you will enjoy it. So we do encourage you to go grab that and read it.

Yeah, I love, you know, he talks about some of the horrific natures, but of the job, but he also has this, this kind of thing inside that he can't really describe. It's like a darkness, right? And that's such a good reminder. know our dear friend, Mike Kenobi always talks about the two dogs inside and which there's a good one and a bad one. And which one are you feeding? You know, and

That's a good reminder because like if something like that comes up, I'm like, well, what, what am I feeding? Have I doom scrolling on YouTube shorts? That's feeding the bad dog in my opinion, or Instagram. You don't mean like that's feeding the bad dog, but I can have conversations with you. can reach out to a friend. I could do positive things with family. And I feel like that's more feeding the good dog and not running away from it, but just addressing it head on saying, it's okay. This is uncomfortable. And I'm going to try to see if I can work my way through it.

Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend of ours, a guy who's come up to the program last week and we were talking about sleep specifically and how to deal with that in the context of the job and his name is Jason does a lot of work in this space. And one of the things that came up during the conversation was just this aspect of my life where, like you're saying, I know

Nole (20:41.022)
most of the things to do. I don't know everything, but I know a lot of the things to do as far as sleep or dealing with post-traumatic stress or whatever. But a lot of times I just find myself not doing them, right? I find something else to do instead. And when I am doing those things and checking those boxes, life is better. I'm handling things better. I'm a better husband, better father, all that stuff. But it's easy to, instead of doing those things to take a nap or

watch a movie or play a video game or doom scroll YouTube. Like those things are easier than taking off my shoes and going and walking in the grass and you know, praying, getting sunlight in my eyes, like doing breathing exercise, you know, all the things taking an ice bath, right? Doing a workout. All those things are hard and they take dedication. And just because I know the answers does not mean that it's helping, right? You have to take the step and execute and

We've talked about this on the podcast before. I how many times we say that in an episode, by the way.

a lot, but we both know guys on the job who we're good friends with who know a lot about good stuff and can talk to you about it ad nauseum, but they're not executing on any of it. And it's almost tragic. And whether that be fitness stuff, health stuff, whatever, they know the answers, but they're not living it. They're not walking the line. And I find myself in that category, you know, at times too, you know, this week,

You know, this week alone, I have been at work quite a bit where I have an ice bath and I just keep kind of missing it. And it's not hugely important, but it kind of is right. Because I know how much better it makes me when I'm doing that on a semi regular basis or a regular basis. And lately I just haven't, I don't want to cause it's uncomfortable. And so I find an excuse, I don't do it. And I'm like, maybe next time.

Nole (22:41.214)
And usually when I get into a mode like that, that lasts for a while. Like I kind of just fall out of the habit and then it's months go by and I'm like, man, I haven't been doing my breathing exercises. I haven't been getting out in the sun and praying in the morning and I'm not ice bathing and lo and behold, I'm a lot more grumpy when I'm home. I'm a lot shorter with my wife. You know, I'm a lot less likely to go knock out the chores that I'm supposed to do here. I'd just kind of be like, you know what? I don't have to do that. Cause no one's going to jam me up about it. Yeah.

You're

I'm the salty fireman that's been on the job for 15 years. And if I don't clean the bathrooms, no one will say anything, but it eats me up inside.

You know, all too often what I see is the common response that you and I don't have though, because we've put some work on this is that like, you have a little feeling of uncomfortability, but you have 48 hours or 72 hours off and a lot of guys just go and say, Hey, I'm going to go have a couple of beers. And then, and I do think alcohol is a tool. can be a tool that, but

But then we're gonna go.

Kevin (23:44.174)
I'm not the person that can have one and be cool. have one leads to oblivion. And so I had to learn early on that sobriety like or just complete abstinence was the only way for me. But that also poses a problem because we feel emotions. I feel all the emotions because I can't check out with alcohol or weed or whatever is out there right now where a lot of people can't. I think, Hey,

If you're able to handle that, that's great. But what happens a lot of time, what I see and what we hear is that the guy had a, he's got a rough go at home. He had a rough few shifts and then he just burned it down for four days. And then all of a sudden he goes to work and the problems are still there. It are now catching up to you. Right. And so we really haven't addressed some of those issues. And, and so that's why we kind of create different tools. Like Noel's talking about getting out in the sun, doing some breathing.

You know what mean? Getting in a workout in, getting an ice bath in. I think sauna is fantastic for me at night. And like those things are all great. They're all great tools and they, think they work in conjunction with each other. And it's also a tool to like talk to somebody. Right. And so all these things are out there, but I do think that sometimes I was like, we're at a disadvantage because I, man, wouldn't it feel great just to check out for a day and not feel a damn thing. Right. I don't have that luxury. I know that that leads to.

death or imprisonment. Right? Right. Like I am allergic to alcohol and I break out in handcuffs when I drink. Like that happens to me. Right. but I do worry about some of the guys, don't think they're alcoholic, but I think that that is the only tool that they have to deal with whatever's going on. And I think sometimes that tool will fail you down the line. Maybe it's 15 years, 20 years down the line, but that tool eventually doesn't work anymore. That is

That's what...

Nole (25:36.622)
It's really interesting. think there's an aspect of that and I'm tired of talking about nicotine, but I'm going to give an update. And this may be the last time I talk about it on the podcast. just, that's just, that'll never be the last time. But, but I think there is an aspect about things like alcohol or nicotine where it's diminishing returns, right? You've talked about it a lot of the podcast about how drinking initially is it's fun and then it's fun with problems and it's just problems.

And nicotine is very different, but where you do get those initial boosts and the cognitive stuff and all that, like the longer you go down the road and the more you increase that amount, it starts to become actually negative and in the opposite, which is, you know, where I was at. And just as a quick update, because guys are actually asking me how I'm doing because clearly for a while there I wasn't doing great. And so I appreciate all the thoughts and prayers, but.

I'm doing, I'm doing really good. I feel a lot better. I'm definitely to the point where I feel great. I feel really good. I feel like I've got good energy. I do feel like I'm starting to come around cognitively where I don't feel like I'm just in a fog all the time, which was hugely frustrating during the first, I don't know, month and a half of being off it, just feeling like I was, I literally felt like I was dumb. Like my brain just was not working and I'm coming out of that and

and doing really good. I'm still totally tempted to use nicotine. still, after a meal or like on a long drive, am thinking about, man, a Zen sounds really good right now. But, and I don't know if that'll ever go away. It might not. With alcohol, has for me, because it's been, it's been so long. Like I don't think about alcohol anymore, but for certainly for years after I quit, I did, it would, I would think about it. I am to a point with alcohol now where I literally don't think about it. I can walk.

through the aisle at the grocery store and not even look or consider it. Not there yet with the nicotine. Definitely still have to at times discipline myself to not just march into the gas station when I'm getting fuel in the morning.

Kevin (27:42.654)
It's more insidious and it's more subtle.

Yeah, for sure. It's not gonna, I'm not gonna break out in handcuffs on you.

Right with drinking you got to clear the schedule. You can't drive. You're not available Everybody knows if you're busted up, right? But if you're on 87 zens in the day, nobody knows but you and your heart, you

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, the little update I'm doing really good.

My man. You know, I'm blessed to be around like this wealth of pretty amazing dudes. And I just want to throw it out there. I thought it was very cool. Recently we have the great captain, Steve Miller, and one of my favorite paramedic firemen, one of the best dudes I know, Billy McDougall, they brought their sons in to work recently. And that's such a cool thing because I really didn't have that experience, right? Like we were.

Kevin (28:30.892)
split households, family working, you know, and it was kid of the eighties, nineties, we were latch key kids, you know, so there was no like going to work, but watching Billy have his son in and bring his kids in and not push his thing on him as kid, maybe not be interested in the fire service at all, but like actually just being around good men, putting in some work, doing the workouts, doing all the things. It's very cool to watch engaging fathers just lead.

young men. And it doesn't have to be about the fire service. It's just being having quality time. And then also them trusting the guys around them that they're going to have like, good advice for the kids that you can see him like, hey, go talk to him, go talk to him, go talk. And he was good. He had him talking to all different cool. And it's a very cool thing to know that, hey, the brotherhood is alive and I don't have sons, but I imagine the same thing is like, if I did, I would love to have them go to your station.

and just go lift stones and talk about life. You know what I mean? And that's a cool thing. Because sometimes we forget that we are surrounded by some great men. You know what mean? And we have the wealth of everybody from great men to bad. But I think the majority of the guys that are around are really stellar. And they're all trying to do the same thing. And I just think it was just very inspiring to see his son and his friends come around, but more on a fatherhood level, just try to give them guidance and time.

Yeah, it is an interesting, really interesting aspect of our job. The men that you are surrounded by on a regular basis. This morning around the table, I had a great conversation with the captain and the engineer. So great in fact, that I invited them on the podcast. I was like, Hey, I'm going to go get the microphones right now. They were out. They said no, but, you do have moments like that where you're surrounded by good dudes that can pour into you or speaking to your life and vice versa.

And then you do also unfortunately have the flip side of that where sometimes you're sitting around the table and it's nothing but negativity. It's nothing but toxic. And that is also though an opportunity, right? To, maybe be the change and speak into that a little bit.

Kevin (30:42.062)
Yeah, that's cool. It was just a very cool reminder watching, you know, Captain Miller and Billy just like be really present with their kid to say that, hey, you don't have to, you know, it doesn't have, can blend work and family life and you can give them, you know, the time and effort when, it's appropriate. You know, and I just thought it was a, it was very cool to watch a father in action, if that makes sense, like actually, uh, you know, being present, pouring into his kid and giving him some, uh, life lessons direction.

and exposure, you know, I thought it was very cool because it's easier to just check out and say, I'll see you when I'm home. You know what I mean? And, you could tell they were doing all the things yesterday. You know, they're doing, you know, cutting things and forcing doors and climbing things and doing hose lays. And it's way easier to not do that. You know I mean? To say, I'll just see at home. And so I was very impressed and it inspired me as a dad to be like, yeah, what can I do with my girls to still do something or incorporate that, you know,

Yeah. So I got invited to an auto extrication drill, not invited. I got told that I was going because the local truck station, they have some guys who are on probation. They have to do their probationary auto extrication and they had to procure a car. And so they invited other engines to come watch this auto extrication drill led by these probationary firemen. And you and I taught that at the tower for eight years or something like that, like a long time.

Pretty good at cars. We are. We are. It's one of the things I'm, I'm still most confident in, in this job as far as my own skills and what I do know. But it's been years since we stopped teaching that. And I went into this knowing that this isn't my drill. These aren't my guys. I'm just going to watch, right? I'm just going to observe. And it was incredibly hard to be in that environment and not to be interjecting and teaching and pointing things out.

And I couldn't, I couldn't do it. Honestly, at the end I was talking, I was in the background talking to a couple of the engineers there that I know from other places and we were talking about different things. And so at the very end I asked the captain, was like, cap, do you mind if I, if I add a couple of things and went back into teaching mode, which I haven't done forever, but it reminded me how much I love passing on knowledge and how much fun it is to teach in an environment like that.

Nole (33:10.346)
And it was great. It was a really good experience. They had got a Volvo is what they is what the junkyard had dropped off for them. It was a tough dude. As soon as I saw it, I was like, you guys, you guys hardcore. And they're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, you didn't get the typical four door Honda Accord. You have a Volvo from the early 2000s. Like this is going to be fun. And they didn't, you know, they're new and they don't know what I'm talking about. They found out it was fun. It was a blast. It was a really good drill. They did a great job.

It was a good reminder to me that there are times and places, even though I've moved past that point in my career where I'm doing that on regular basis, but there are times and places where it is good to be in a role where you're teaching and instructing. And I feel like a lot of times that isn't just on the job stuff. Like more of what you're talking about is almost more teaching guys life lessons. Like a lot of these young guys coming on the job, you know, whatever background they came from.

maybe they're missing portions of just being a good man that you can help them out with. And that's the kind of conversation that happens around the table in the morning or after dinner or whatever that is just as important. And those are the types of things that you can pass on to your kids as well. Right? Like if you're thinking about a conversation that you're having with your probationary fireman, cause he's 19 years old, he's never had a job and doesn't know how to live life. Those might be things that you can pass on to your kids as well, or should be.

Right. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the more we've done this, the less I know. And the firefighting stuff is endless. And I realized like, I haven't really put in the time or effort. I'm not going to the conferences and doing classes and doing all this stuff. So I feel very confident in cutting cars and that's about it. Right. And so I realized like my value to guys are talking to them if they want to, it's more on this kind of stuff, life experience or inclusion.

Hey, there's other things that we can do if you're struggling or whatever it be. It tends to not be about firefighting because I don't know, right? I'm not the expert in anything. Right. And so I feel like that's, that's purposeful though. Like I remember like, thinking about what our purpose is and where am I supposed to be and where God wants me. I do think that it's supposed to be at work and you're pouring into each other and that that relationship, whoever it is for the day is purposeful. And I'm not like,

Kevin (35:33.454)
A lot of the times you can think of your ministry as like very grandiose. So it's for the people outside or it's, you know, it's for the fire program, for whatever. It might just be your engineer. You know what I mean? It might just mean that you got to call, you got to talk with them and some's going, whatever. So I'm more apt to like being open to that. Like I know we have things to do and toilets are clean and rigs to wash and things to fix, but sometimes in those moments are the times that you, think are purposeful, right?

Yeah. I have a little subversive tool that I've been using this past year that I will share with the podcast listener. And I've worked around some guys that listening to them talk about their lives and some of the things they're dealing with. There's areas where I feel like I could, I could lean in a little bit and give, give some, some really good advice that could change their life positively. Right. I feel like I could do that, but I also feel like if I just, just coming from me,

You know, the young fireman who's very strange, right? I'm very weird of an apartment. all the things that we do, it may not hit, you know, it may not land or be, something that's receptive. So one of the things that I've been doing is I find YouTube videos. We're back to YouTube, but, like a podcast where they're talking about something that's kind of the same theme as where I think they could do some changes. would be really positively impactful for their life and I'll send it to them.

And then when they listen to it and they want to talk about it, then I have space to, speak into it with my own experience and what I think and you know, why I think it's important or whatever. And it could be anything from cholesterol numbers and taking statins to actual, you know, stuff that involves eternity, right? Spiritual stuff. But that's been a cool tool and something that I found super useful to kind of open the doors to conversation. let an expert,

And a couple of guys who are really good at talking about it, talk about it first. And then it opens up that line of conversation where now you're discussing it around the table and then other people are getting drawn in. So that actually happened by accident. didn't plan that out, but I did notice that it happened after a certain podcast episode that I sent. I've since used that tool a few other times and it's been, it's been interesting. It's been fun and. And can give you an opportunity to have conversations around the station that you may not.

Nole (37:56.906)
normally, because it's not stuff that just comes up in normal, you know, lineup and after dinner conversation.

Yeah, because like who the hell am I if I go around telling everybody that this is what you should do. And I have no business telling anybody what they should or shouldn't do, you know what mean? But I do think that one of the cool things about the podcast is that people will listen to something or some concept that we're talking about. And that is the conversation starter. You know what mean? I'm like, that's that was the whole purpose of whatever that episode was, is to have this conversation, you know? And a lot of times it helps me.

Right, 100%.

Nole (38:32.364)
yeah. Every time, every time I started doing another really weird thing, dude. You want to hear about it? I've already talked to you about it, but we'll pretend like I haven't. So I've heard about it on a couple of different podcasts and my brother-in-law out in Texas, his name is bear. I saw him do it and it's mouth taping. Tebow does it. So he's probably the closest guy that I've talked to. think.

I don't think T-bo was the first time I heard about it, but anyway, it doesn't matter. The concept is that you get this special tape and you tape your mouth shut while you're sleeping, which the first time I heard about it, way. Like that is the dumbest craziest thing I've ever heard. But when it comes from a guy like Dave, who I respect and look up to, he's the best, he's a great friend. I was, I was intrigued, but I didn't, I didn't pull the trigger. Cause I think I first heard him talking about it over a year ago. I was like, it's just too weird.

No.

Nole (39:29.942)
Anyway, I heard some other people talking about it on a podcast and I thought, you know what? I'm going to try this. So I bought the tape. The stuff that I bought is called hostage tape. Of course. And I've been using it and I love it. I'm in.

it is.

Kevin (39:45.646)
here we go. Yeah. And you're just saying how weird it gets. I'm sure I know you sleep at an open door and you probably have some sort of, you know, darkness going on.

I am in.

Nole (40:00.866)
You gotta wear an eye mask. You got a blindfold and I have tape across my mouth.

So you get now you got this going on. I'm sure that they're like, my God. No, who's going to say anything to him?

I'm the weirdest dude around for sure. The thing that I thought was going to be a no-go for me is I tried to imagine being forced to breathe through my nose while I was falling asleep. And I felt like it would be too, I just felt like it would make me claustrophobic and be stressful, right? To have your mouth taped shut. But I don't know what it is. It's, it's not a big deal at all. It feels a little bit weird to put tape across your mouth initially. It's kind of like, that's a little bit uncomfortable.

But then when I lay down, don't, literally don't even think about it. And the next thing I know, I'm asleep and I look like a crazy person because I'm literally, but no one looks at you in bed. So it's totally safe. But if they did, they would see I'm literally blindfolded. have a face. I have a mask over my eyes to keep it totally dark. And now my mouth is taped shut. I mean, it's, I'm the weirdest dude in the station for sure. Probably in the battalion, but I wake up in the morning and I feel, I feel great. I feel like I feel noticeably better.

My sleep numbers in my Garmin have been pretty consistent, but I've been either waking up at home and coming into work, or I've been at work and going somewhere the next day. So I don't usually, those aren't my best nights of sleep. my numbers haven't skyrocketed, but they're consistently where they would normally be. So I was kind of hoping that it would make my numbers go from eighties on a good night up into the high nineties. That hasn't been the case yet, but I'm a convert. I like it a lot and I will continue to do it. My

Nole (41:35.64)
Probably my favorite thing, and this is a little bit weird, but my favorite thing about it is I don't wake up in the morning with that horrible, a cat took a dump in my mouth. That's real. And it eliminates that because your mouth isn't hanging open and getting all dry and nasty. So I'm in, I don't know about the snoring aspect of it. It's not guaranteed to stop snoring. I do snore a little bit sometimes. My wife tells me, I don't think it's true, but.

It's supposed to also eliminate that. can't speak to that. Although I do plan on surreptitiously taping my engineer's mouth one of these nights to see if it works because he snores like a banshee every night. So I want to get him to test that aspect of it for me. Just like, Hey, just try this out. But I'll, I'll report back if I can ever convince him to do it, which is highly unlikely.

This is hilarious. Well, shout out to Nick Field. He's a punk listener up in Oregon. was saying, we got to start doing this. He had the same thing. He said, he gave it a try and it was a game changer for him. He's waking up before his alarms. He feels better and it doesn't have that dryness congestion in his throat. You know, he was telling us we have to try this, but I know how this goes, Noel. I know how this goes.

How does it go?

chili pad, then it's an eye mask and then there's gonna be some sort of earplug situation. Now, now we're taping our mouths before you know it, there's gonna be some sort of mouthpiece that we're wearing. And eventually, you're gonna have some sort of tension straps and you're like, strap me in, bro.

Nole (43:04.973)
Yes.

I know how this goes, I know how this goes, dude.

When you have an infant baby and you swaddle them, you take the blanket and you fold it up like a burrito and you wrap it real tight so they can't move and they can't roll and they just, they're just, and then they go immediately to sleep because they love that feeling. Cause it's like the womb. We're going to duplicate that. It's going to be like, swallow me, bro. I'm going to sleep.

Mark this day, It's almost August in 2025 and pretty soon we're going to hear about sleeping in hyperbaric chambers or something. It's going that way.

Yeah, yeah, it's I I don't know sleep is incredibly important. I love it and you know me, dude I'm always looking for the next weird thing to participate in so that's what it is right now for me. It's hostage tape and I'm on board I am flying in a plane in a couple of days with my wife and I already told my wife I was like listen woman This is how I talked to my wife listen woman I want you to know that on the plane I'm gonna be wearing my eye mask and I'm gonna need you to tape my mouth well So that I can sleep on the plane and she's like no you're not doing that

Kevin (44:06.515)
Handcuff me in.

I'm going to do it, which of course is not true. And I don't talk to my wife that way, but it was funny to say, cause I did tell her, was like, Hey, I'm to do this. And I just told her that to see what she would say. And she knew I wasn't being truthful because even as weird as I am, I can't do that. If I was by myself on a plane, I would a hundred percent do it. But with my wife, you know, you got to have a conversation and hang out and actually not be a weirdo. So

Look, the reality is if Dave Tebow does it, you should too. know what So I'm going to definitely try it out. Yeah, and see how it goes.

you should be getting yours by the way. I sent you some. They should be showing up pretty

But Nick Field said, you know, a cheap version is the micro pour 3m tape off of Amazon is fine.

Nole (44:51.15)
I think that's what Dave Thibault is using now because it is cheaper. I believe I heard him say that too.

Anyways, that's the suggestion. Good luck out there. You hostages.

Hmm. Get after it.

It's like now you're going to Sears school again.

God. I never went to Sears school for the record, but I know someone who did, one more thing for you County guys out there. If you have not signed up for this function health blood test panel, you need to do it. If you need information on it, send us an email and I'll hook you up with it. But there's tons of guys doing it around the County. I'm not going to go into any more detail about that, but I'm doing it. Kevin's doing it. We will do an episode talking about our numbers and stuff, but you need to do this.

Nole (45:35.168)
It's really good. It's going to be very beneficial for you. And yeah, it's a, it's a really good deal. We'll just say that. So if you don't know what I'm talking about, start asking around the station. The company's called function health. And if you can't find anybody that knows, just send us an email and I'll, I'll show you where to go.

Yeah, Bloodworks awesome, right? It gets you a starting point of saying what we can do here.

Yeah. And it's a really good deal. Wink, wink.

Hey, will I get no, I say wheel. Well, I'll get no to put a link in the show notes for signing up for our fifth annual nine 11 Memorial stair climb. Oh, done and done. Nevermind. guys, if you, you've probably heard us talk about this, there are actual videos on YouTube from this and it's one of my favorite days of the year. It's on September 7th. It's a Sunday, the Sunday before nine 11 this year.

It's already in there.

Kevin (46:33.016)
but we partner with Core Health and Fitness who owns SteerMaster. We also partner with our friends from Next Wrong, which are just the greatest people. And they put on just an amazing day. This has turned into such a big family event and kind of a reunion. There are guys that are coming with their entire family, which is really cool to meet some of the guys from the Fire Up program and meet their families, their wives, their kids. And it's just a very cool.

Day to remember we said we'd never forget and this is our way of never forgetting You're going to climb 110 floors or as many floors as you can or you want to right on stair masters with encouragement and people around we do do a ceremony in the beginning and You're also climbing for a specific member who died on 9-eleven you get to ring the bell afterwards and yell out his name It's very impactful to me and my family looks forward to it. My wife climbs the kids climb I know knows whole family climbs

And it's a lot of things we get to do as firefighters are by ourselves as firefighters and even the fire program. You're only coming up by yourself. This is the one thing I know that you can do as a family. So I really encourage you to bring the family so we can get to meet them. And I think that's, it kind of breaks down some of that, you know, we don't get to see each other often, but this is a one day we get to hang out and there's a lot of time to hang out. So I'd love for you guys to come sign up, for our, and it's free a hundred percent free.

Yeah, we actually really need you guys to sign up the, the work that core puts into this for us is amazing. They do a ton to get ready for this and they bring out a ton of their stair machines. It's a really well done event. And in order for this to keep being a thing, we've got to, we've got to fill it up. We've got to max it out. And right now we do have a cap.

So there is a limit of the amount of people that we can sign up just based on the amount of time it takes to do the stair climb. So don't miss out. I know most of you are firemen and just kind of plan your day or plan your life a week out. But for this one, we need you to plan a lot further out. Like right now we need you to be signing up. So do us a favor, go sign up and definitely come hang out. It has been one of the most, I mean, it's one of the events that I look forward to every year since we started this. It's really fun.

Nole (48:51.27)
And like Kevin said, it's great family event. And my wife and kids have been out at every single one and it's been a blast. So don't miss out on that. Make sure that you sign up literally right now today, this week at the latest so that you don't miss out. Cause we do have to cap it. And our cap this year is, is lower than previous years. Cause we're moving the event indoors. So it's limiting the amount of people we can get. So make sure you sign up.

Well, that's enough out of us. Good luck taping your mouths and hopefully we'll see you in September. Noel have a great flight. can't wait to hear if know some Marshall is checking on you when you duct tape to the chair.

Sir, I'm sorry, sir, sir, you cannot tape your mouth on the plane.

Until next time guys, this has been the Fire E.K. Pocket.

Nole (49:46.752)
As you go sign up for the 9-11 Memorial Stair Climb, which I know you're getting ready to do right now, keep in mind that this is the type of event that you can invite anybody to bring your parents out, bring your neighbor out. This is a kid friendly event. It is incredibly awesome. And as part of it, we do a ceremony at the beginning where we talk about that day. We have a moment of silence where we honor the fallen. We put the flag up. We do the Pledge of Allegiance. It's a very patriotic and just good family event. So.

bring your friends and family, and we'll see you out there in September on the 7th. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next week.